skygiants | (no subject)

I really really liked Laurie Marks' Fire Logic, and I'm going to complain about some stuff below but I want you guys to keep in mind that overall I thought the book was SUPER enjoyable.

...overall I did. First complaint: the first seventy or so pages of the book are EXTREMELY GRIM and features invasions and conquest and genocide and a great deal of overall unpleasantness, so it took me quite a while to get into it.

However, I perked right up when after those seventy pages of despair Our Heroine Zanja, a professional linguist/spy/diplomat/warrior/semi-clairvoyant, was rescued from a tragic fate in prison by Our Other Heroine Karis, a gentle giant heroic blacksmith with superpowers!

Zanja pretty much falls head over heels in love with Karis like twenty minutes after meeting her, and really, who can blame her, I suspect basically ANY OF US would do the same. Alas, Karis has a.) a secret destiny and b.) a really overprotective friend who's like THIS WILL ONLY END IN TEARS and c.) a Tragic Drug Addiction that means that after a day's work of heroic blacksmithing she spends every night in a helpless state of stoned obedience, hence the really overprotective friend who's like NO, SERIOUSLY, THIS WILL ONLY END IN TEARS.

(I love Karis, but I will note that she is basically the World's Most Sympathetic Drug Addict. Her drug addiction is not even 1% her fault; when she is in withdrawal she suffers nobly and heroically but is never even a little bit an asshole; similarly when she is drugged-out she is helpless and lacking in agency but never an asshole, not even the least little bit, because fantasy drugs are convenient like that.)

Anyway, as a result, instead of following Karis around forever like a puppy dog as is her dearest wish, Zanja reluctantly lets Karis' Overprotective Friend have her way and agrees to ride off instead to join the underground military resistance. There she befriends Emil, the middle-aged leader of this particular troupe of underground military resistance who would really rather just be back at grad school, and has a brief fling with Annis, an enthusiastic pyromaniac, and then encounters a moral dilemma in the form of an enemy prophet who maybe just wants to be friends, but eventually Karis and Zanja are reunited and go back to taking turns dramatically rescuing each other/getting into peril as soon as the other one's back is turned/dramatically rescuing each other again.

Some more facts about this book:
- there are basically no straight people in it (well, that's not quite true, there are two straight married people and everyone spends the whole book being like 'well, that relationship is doomed')
- pretty much everyone is generally well-intentioned and heroic and self-sacrificing and trying their overall best, except for the people who are Definitely Shady
- there is a lot of very good found-family-ing
- also so much hurt-comfort, so much, MY GOODNESS the number of times Zanja or Karis are near-death and tender physical contact is the only way to help
- speaking of injuries, I would like to note that most people in this book who have injuries are eventually magically healed of them and this includes long-term disabilities
- speaking of long-term disabilities, Karis has no ability to feel sexual desire as a long-term side effect of the drug addiction, which everyone in-universe agrees is VERY TRAGIC, and, I mean, there are specific in-character reasons for Karis and Zanja to find this a.) distressing and b.) a significant relationship obstacle, but like. Kids, it is possible to have a successful relationship that is not 100% dependent on whether or not Karis is ever able to enjoy sex, I promise this is not the Saddest of All the Long Tales Ever Told.
- there's an elemental magic system underlying the whole thing but I have not mentioned it because I don't reeeeeeeally understand how it works
- and speaking of worldbuilding, there is a flashback whose sole purpose appears to be to establish the existence of a whole city that seems to be just sad drug-addicted prostitutes. A whole city. A WHOLE CITY.
- ... I mean, I mock, but CITY OF PROSTITUTES aside, Marks seems to be very interested in exploring violence and causes of violence and the possibility for non-violent responses to violence, and cultural shifts and cultural exchange, and despite the high levels of violence I would characterize the book as generally optimistic

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I adore these books. The Good Addict angle hadn't occurred to me re: Karis, but otoh I'm completely failing to come up with many other positively portrayed addicts in fantasy. And it's pretty radical in a Chosen One.

There really aren't many! (Drug addicts, especially. More heroic alcoholics, I think -- Jessica Jones, for example.) And, I mean, I do love Karis as a character, I love her a lot, and I appreciate that she still faces the stigma for her addiction even though she is 100% virtuous and it is 110% not her fault in any way. But honestly the way Karis' actual addiction plays out feels more to me like a fantasy curse or something than anything that much parallels addiction in the real world.

But I could be judging in advance of the data too, I'm curious how it will play out in future books!

Yay! I really like these; I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the rest of them.

Marks seems to be very interested in exploring violence and causes of violence and the possibility for non-violent responses to violence, and cultural shifts and cultural exchange

Yes, there is a lot more on this later in the series (and less grimness).

I am looking forward to reading the rest of them! I'm really curious where the series will go from here. :)

But what REALLY is the Saddest of All the Long Tales Told, Becca?????

Everyone knows you can't even begin to compete there until you have a love triangle!

I love these books so much!!!

I need to re-read them, it's been YEARS.

I am excited to read the next two! :D

Emil, the middle-aged leader of this particular troupe of underground military resistance who would really rather just be back at grad school

*Group W Bench*

there are specific in-character reasons for Karis and Zanja to find this a.) distressing and b.) a significant relationship obstacle, but like. Kids, it is possible to have a successful relationship that is not 100% dependent on whether or not Karis is ever able to enjoy sex

That's actually pretty neat.

I was loaned a copy of Fire Logic about eight or nine years ago after receiving enthusiastic recommendations from multiple people and bounced at once off the prose style. I suppose I should try again.

Well, no, it doesn't actually do the thing -- see the bullet point directly above, hence my point of caveat. :/ I still really liked the book and I think you might too once you get past the beginning bits, but.

Well, no, it doesn't actually do the thing -- see the bullet point directly above, hence my point of caveat.

Ah. I didn't make the connection that Karis' lack of sexual desire was one of the magically healed disabilities. I may have taken read some of your sarcasm seriously.

So what is the resolution of the Karis/Zanja relationship?

Yeah, the whole thing with Karis is that the drug basically prevents her from feeling any physical sensation (no touch, no taste, no desire of any kind, etc.); everyone thinks this is permanent just as everyone thinks drug addiction is permanent, but once Karis is able to get herself off the drug the rest turns out to eventually come back. So it's not ... quite magical healing, I guess, except inasmuch as it's unclear how much Karis being able to get herself off the drug is a result of Karis' superpowers rather than something anybody could do if they realized it was possible.

Anyway after a full book of mutual pining Karis/Zanja ends very happily and triumphantly and they rescue each other approx. 5 million times and then hook up and then ride off into the sequel and it is great! Caveats aside, that is not sarcasm. I found the relationship very satisfying.

Caveats aside, that is not sarcasm. I found the relationship very satisfying.

Okay, cool. That's good to know. When my books are no longer in boxes, I will give this one another try.

Well, drug addiction is a disability, and one that's almost universally demonized and painted as a moral failing, so I think her being portrayed as not at fault and full heroic would be great and basically unheard of. (I can only think of one other character like this, and you don't wanna know that book's author.)

This is exactly how she is portrayed! And I do love her and I love that she is there, but -- I dunno, despite what is described as a very widespread addiction problem the only other addict we see onscreen for more than a second pretty much immediately betrays everyone he knows and loves and then dies.

So in future books I would kind of like to see some more fallible humans who maybe got addicted for a fallible human reason, rather than literally because the drug was force-fed to them by evildoers, and who also get to be heroic and sympathetic and not at fault for this.

Ah, okay, that makes sense. I think I misunderstood what you were saying.

I think I also phrased it poorly, which is what happens when I try to bookblog late at night /o\

the only other addict we see onscreen for more than a second pretty much immediately betrays everyone he knows and loves and then dies.

That sounds horrible.

Well, it happens in the first 70 pages when EVERYTHING that happens is horrible.

I heard "no straight people" and I was sold from there. Immediately. There's a bunch of other things in the list that make me go eeeeeeeh BUT NO STRAIGHT PEOPLE :D :D :D

I would definitely recommend the book overall despite caveats! VERY GOOD LESBIANS.

I was not sure I liked this when I first read it, but found that I kept thinking about it for several days. Later I decided that I liked it quite a bit. I think Earth Logic is stronger. I need to read Water Logic again, as I can't remember any of it...except some time travel?

I'm not very knowledgeable about colonialism, assimilation, and similar issues. I thought Marks's treatment very interesting and thought-provoking.

Ha, I had almost the opposite progression -- liked it a lot while reading, thought about it, decided I had some qualms, thought about it again, decided that in fact despite qualms I still liked it a lot!

...I have to admit I was not expecting time travel.

...I have to admit I was not expecting time travel.

I think early exposure to Anne McCaffrey's Dragonflight may have guaranteed I'm never surprised when it's time travel.

I tried reading this book once, but I stalled somewhere in the first 70 pages. It's good to know it improves! I should pick it up again.

Yes, it definitely gets much less grim once everyone stops being slaughtered and starts falling earnestly in love instead!