skygiants: yujin from nirvana in fire getting dragged by xia dong (wooster)
skygiants ([personal profile] skygiants) wrote2020-04-11 02:57 pm
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After more than a year of luxuriously slow viewing, [personal profile] genarti and I have finally finished watching Nirvana in Fire!

For those unfamiliar: Nirvana in Fire is an astoundingly good Chinese drama which I've often seen people compare to Game of Thrones. I understand why people recommended it this way, especially in GoT's heyday -- Nirvana in Fire is also a sweeping, complex historical-political epic with beautiful outfits -- but I respectfully disagree with this comparison; unlike Game of Thrones, Nirvana in Fire is a.) meticulously plotted, b.) focuses far more on extremely sympathetic humans who are motivated by their own deep senses of ethics, loyalty, and justice, and c.) does not feature dragons or indeed any mythological creatures at all (except for a whole lot of nonsense medicines and poisons, and, possibly, a yeti.)

The plot: the court of Da Liang is locked in factional struggle between two putative heirs to the Emperor's throne; Mei Changsu, Our Hero, is a brilliant scholar and strategist who has come to the capital to graciously allow each of the Emperor's favored sons an opportunity to attempt to recruit him.

However, in fact, Mei Changsu has actually come to maneuver the rise of the Emperor's least favorite son, the extremely honest but congenitally un-strategic Jingyan ... because Mei Changsu, unbeknownst to almost anyone very much including Jingyan, is secretly Jingyan's dearest friend, who was presumed massacred along with his entire family twelve years ago in an Unfortunate Treason Incident, but managed to survive thanks to a rare affliction that causes you to be played by a different actor, and has now returned! for REVENGE! that incidentally involves reforming the entire court and replacing it with a more ethical version of itself!

HIJINKS, IDENTITY PORN, AND A TRULY INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF POLITICAL AND EMOTIONAL MANIPULATION ENSUE.

The cast? The cast!

Mei Changsu: a liar



Prince Jingyan: a perfectly balanced mix of honor, depression, and belligerently repressed intransigence




- Princess Nihuang, who was engaged to be married to Mei Changsu (original flavor) before the Unfortunate Treason Incident and has been effectively dodging other suitors by leading armies on the southern border ever since; righteous, forthright, and yet somehow still perfectly competent at effectively managing court intrigue (yes this is a Jingyan callout post)




- General Meng, Mei Changsu's ally on the inside; a bold and respected warrior who is also a constant source of workplace sitcom energy




- Fei Lu, the world's most skilled martial artist



- Consort Jing, Jingyan's mother, a doctor who came to the palace one day to treat a patient and regrettably was not thereafter allowed to leave; possessed of absolutely incredible levels of chill, even more subtlety than Mei Changsu, and a very useful talent for remembering all her son's friend's allergies



- Jingrui and Yujin, cluelessly genial young lads-about-town manipulated by befriended by Mei Changsu for mysterious reasons of his own. We initially called them the interchangeable Woosters, until Jingrui began to develop a more significant role as a beloved, sheltered, ethical baby unfortunately doomed to discover that his inordinately complex and shady family was intertwined in a series of inordinately complex and shady plots. As a result this began to seem unfair to Jingrui and we switched to calling them Woost and Wooster.




- (Nihuang's baby brother Mu Qing eventually emerged as Woostest.)



- Xia Dong, a virtuous member of the secret police with a tragically dead husband, who is about to come face to face with the shocking fact that some secret police organizations are in fact problematic



- Prince Yu, the Emperor's favorite son and Jingyan's main opponent for most of the show; he tried so hard, and got so far



- Banruo, Prince Yu's chief strategist, absolute best smirk in the cast



- Gong Yu, the Haydée to Mei Changsu's Edmond Dantès but less romantically successful; occasionally gets more to do than pine after Mei Changsu but not as much as one might wish



- Lin Chen, an eccentric medical genius; absent most of the show but sweeps into the final arc with an ABSOLUTE vengeance




Favorite subplots include but are not limited to:
- Mei Changsu manipulates the court and sends an enemy into ruin by playing an enthusiastic round of House Hunters
- Mei Changsu manipulates the court and sends an enemy into ruin by raising a question about the seating charts at a holiday party
- Jingrui Has A Birthday Party
- strategist scavenger hunt!
- "Consort Jing is like a cotton ball that cannot be flattened or broken. There's no way to fight her."
- the stressful round of chicken involving a prison escape attempt
- the hilarious round of chicken involving a deadly poison
- everything related to the yeti
caprices: Star-shaped flower (Default)

[personal profile] caprices 2020-04-11 07:23 pm (UTC)(link)
This sounds like Gormenghast but SO much more fun!

Thank you for the recommendation and outline of enticing themes. I hope it does not end in the bitter tears of eternal despair?

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genarti: ([misc] turn my face to the hills)

[personal profile] genarti 2020-04-11 09:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I would say it more ends in a single tear sliding down past a bittersweet smile? Like, there's definite bittersweetness, but it's not bitter tears of eternal despair.

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sophia_sol: photo of a 19th century ivory carving of a fat bird (Default)

[personal profile] sophia_sol 2020-04-11 07:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh I've read fanfiction about Nihuang and really enjoyed it, I'm glad to hear she comes from a genuinely good tv show!
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Default)

[personal profile] nineveh_uk 2020-04-11 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm 6 episodes in - after an unfortunate incident in which ep 4 was not on the YouTube playlist and I had to watch it then 5 again - and I'm really enjoying it. I love the clothes, the wigs, the story, and the fact that for once the cunning people engaged in complex plots actually have complex plots.

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coffeeandink: Nirvana in Fire - incense stick (nif incense)

[personal profile] coffeeandink 2020-04-11 08:04 pm (UTC)(link)
It remains my conviction that Consort Jing is actually the smartest person and best manipulator in the cast. Sorry, Lin Shu.

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lirazel: Nana from Orange Caramel against a turquoise background in the Catallena music video ([music] catallena)

[personal profile] lirazel 2020-04-11 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
That sounds incredible, but why are Asian dramas so loooooong?

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sovay: (Sydney Carton)

[personal profile] sovay 2020-04-11 08:50 pm (UTC)(link)
- Lin Chen, an eccentric medical genius; absent most of the show but sweeps into the final arc with an ABSOLUTE vengeance

Sold.

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lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)

[personal profile] lannamichaels 2020-04-11 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)
NIRVANA IN FIRE

- (Nihuang's baby brother Mu Qing eventually emerged as Woostest.)

*bursts out laughing*

- the hilarious round of chicken involving a deadly poison

Jingyan learns maximum drama, it was so great :D

Or wait, is this in the prison instead? I love how there are many rounds of poison excellence to choose from.

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brownbetty: (Default)

[personal profile] brownbetty 2020-04-11 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, but also Noble Consort Yue has a very strong smirk.

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annotated_em: Fuji Yuuta (Prince of Tennis manga) grinning. (grin)

[personal profile] annotated_em 2020-04-11 09:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I think Jingyan traded all his political savvy in for Really Amazing Cheekbones.

...also Woost, Wooster, and Woostest might be the greatest thing I have ever seen.

The moral of NiF really comes down to this: Don't invite Mei Changsu to your birthday party unless you wish to regret everything.
krait: Su Zhe in a cloak with Fei Liu behind him, in the snow (Nirvana in Fire: Su Zhe and Fei Liu)

[personal profile] krait 2020-04-12 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
50% cheekbone skills, 50% battle skills. It took every charisma point he had, but he doesn't regret a thing. :D
eglantiere: (Default)

[personal profile] eglantiere 2020-04-11 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
rewatching NiF is an interesting exercise in seeing how mei changsu successfully pretends to himself and convinces other people (who should frankly know better!) that his traumatic, suicidal self-hatred is actually a Valid Strategic Decision. it makes a lot of very sad sense watsonianly, but i wish they'd lean into achieving a catharsis on that instead of Suddenly, Invasion.

yujin is the world's best wooster and he beats even jingrui's sweetness and mu qing's cuteness in my heart. and he's actually pretty smart! the prince ji kind of smart, the one that would've survived the very bad times.

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wanderlustlover: (Beauty Sailor Moon - allinye)

[personal profile] wanderlustlover 2020-04-11 09:45 pm (UTC)(link)
This sounds sssssssoooo magical.
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2020-04-11 10:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I so wish this were readily available on DVD with decent English subtitles so I could love it and squeeze it and name it George.
krait: Su Zhe in a cloak with Fei Liu behind him, in the snow (Nirvana in Fire: Su Zhe and Fei Liu)

[personal profile] krait 2020-04-11 10:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I wish this too, because I was on Ep 15 of a rewatch when the subtitled version was dropped from Viki. D:<

I WILL PAY, JUST GIVE ME MY FAVES WITH SUBTITLES!

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krait: Su Zhe in a cloak with Fei Liu behind him, in the snow (Nirvana in Fire: Su Zhe and Fei Liu)

[personal profile] krait 2020-04-11 10:30 pm (UTC)(link)
You finished it! \o/

Please come talk to me a lot about how pretty Mei Changsu is and how unfightable Consort Jing is and how fast Lin Chen steals the show when he appears onscreen! Also I have fanfic and fanart recs if you're interested in those!

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percysowner: (Default)

[personal profile] percysowner 2020-04-11 10:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Advice needed. My options for this are 1) a completely legal but dubbed version on Viki and the comments are not happy, since at one time they had the subtitled version. 2) A subtitled version on YouTube which may or may not have all the episodes. This is legal, but possibly uploaded in such a way that they could be pulled. Basically, is the subtitled version the one you saw, or did you get the dubbed one. I prefer subtitled, but if you loved it dubbed I'll go that route.
whimsyful: arang_1 (Default)

[personal profile] whimsyful 2020-04-11 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd go with the subbed version - I found the dubbed version on viki absolutely terrible.

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shadaras: A phoenix with wings fully outspread, holidng a rose and an arrow in its talons. (Default)

[personal profile] shadaras 2020-04-12 12:09 am (UTC)(link)
I keep thinking about watching this because everyone seems so enthused about it (and your summary just makes it sound even more delightful), but also where does one, in fact, watch this?

[personal profile] banny_nt 2020-04-12 01:18 pm (UTC)(link)
https://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x6fwnx
You can watch it here. If you create an account, which is free, you can avoid the ads!

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julad: (Default)

[personal profile] julad 2020-04-12 01:32 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, thank you for this summary, I have actual tears from laughing. Everything about this is 10000% correct.
aria: (Default)

[personal profile] aria 2020-04-12 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
This sounds DELIGHTFUL, particular shoutouts to:

- the fact that for some reason our main character is played by two actors despite being, presumably, the same person the entire time? (vs another show I could name in which it would be reasonable to cast two actors for the same main character but the show refuses to do so; all of these choices are hilarious)
- the shocking fact that some secret police organizations are in fact problematic made me cackle in horror
- the yeti???

Does one watch this on Netflix, or elsewhere?
krait: Su Zhe in a cloak with Fei Liu behind him, in the snow (Nirvana in Fire: Su Zhe and Fei Liu)

[personal profile] krait 2020-04-12 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
A different actor plays young!Lin Shu, but that seems like a typical live-action thing, and as far as I know the adult character is played by only one actor (Hu Ge)?

The problematic aspects of the secret police organisation are entertaining to watch unfold! First problem: the Emperor they answer to has the moral fibre of a worm. Second problem: the head of the organisation has the moral fibre of a scorpion. Third problem: Both of those people have offended Mei Changsu's sense of justice, and therefore are about to get their comeuppances in spectacularly painful fashion.

As for where... I watched it on Viki, and attempted to rewatch it on Youtube but kept running into blocked episodes. Curious to know where more recent viewers may have found it!

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oyceter: teruterubouzu default icon (Default)

[personal profile] oyceter 2020-04-12 06:43 am (UTC)(link)
Ahahaha so glad you enjoyed! After watching the first episode about ten times and not getting much further, I finally sat down, determined to get through, and probably finished it in about a week.

Consort Jing! The best.
dimestore_romeo: (Default)

[personal profile] dimestore_romeo 2020-04-12 11:57 am (UTC)(link)
I think by the end Consort Jing was my forever fave.

For me, my favourite Mei Changsu manipulation moment was when Jingyan was organising the tents and blankets for the people affected by the factory explosion - and MCS tells him not to make a formal report about the military goods he requisitioned to see is the Crown Prince tries to pettily use it against him. And he does. And it makes Jingyan look GREAT.
dragonyphoenix: (i must squee!)

[personal profile] dragonyphoenix 2020-04-12 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Eee, I just want to say I adore your descriptions of Nirvana in Fire.

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elsane: greyscale butterfly from NiF intro (nif butterfly)

[personal profile] elsane 2020-04-13 04:06 am (UTC)(link)
I AM SO GLAD YOU WATCHED IT AND LIKED IT

your character descriptions are very funny, I choked at Fei Liu

I, I, I am ded of quarantine and have no brain, thank you for this post ♥

castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)

[personal profile] castiron 2020-04-13 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
I don't know whether this is a common cdrama thing, but one of the things I especially appreciated as I watched the series for the first time was the clips from sundry episodes in the end credits. Once I realized what they were, it was exciting to see a scene and realize "oh, that's where this bit comes from!" And as the series progressed and I'd identified more and more of the clips, the anticipation for the rest grew; when I finally reached one particular scene, it had an extra kick because I'd seen that one vignette over and over and over, and *now* was the time.