(no subject)

[skygiants]

Miles, Mystery and Mayhem is kind of an odd collection as far as the Miles omnibi go. It's got Cetaganda packaged with Ethan of Athos, which was written ten years before it - which means that you get the interesting and complicated Cetagandan culture that Bujold came up with after rejecting the concept of Stock Cetagandan Bad Guys, followed immediately by some Stock Cetagandan Bad Guys. Which creates a little bit of cognitive dissonance.

I'd read Cetaganda before, but not Ethan of Athos or "Labyrinth", the short story that is included in the package. I liked and still mostly like what Bujold is doing in Cetaganda, though I have some issues with it, but I am not really sure how I feel about either of the other two. Ethan of Athos follows a doctor from an all-male planet on his first interaction with the wider world as he negotiates for new egg cultures to keep their society going. Bujold is trying really hard in this book to deal with a thorny issue in a thoughtful way. It's very interesting to see, and I like some of the things she does - Ethan's attraction to men does not vanish the first time he comes into contact with a woman, for example, which I was very nervous about, and he does not immediately switch all his ingrained prejudices, either - but I am sort of weirded out by the way that Ethan and everyone from his planet reads to me as a bit childlike (though Ethan does get better as the book goes on). I mean, part of that is the culture clash, and I do like how she deals with that, but his planet seems to have no twisty politicans or suspicious schemers or rule-breakers or anyone who has any kind of conception of or curiosity about the wider world AT ALL, which might fly for a small isolated village, but this is an entire planet! I don't think she's deliberately trying to say that no women ------> lack of maturity, or no women -------> A MORE INNOCENT TIME, but there's definitely a kind of 'coming of age' feel to (middle-aged) Ethan's first interactions with gendered society, and I'm not sure I like the implications there. Thoughts, if anyone has read, would be appreciated!

In less academically-overthinking news, though, I do really like how she creates a believable and well-thought-out picture of a space station community, and I love Elli Quinn and her badassery and her five zillion old friends and cousins.

"Labyrinth," on the other hand, is a well-written story about Jackson's Whole and moral dilemmas that unfortunately hits several of my DO NOT WANT buttons, involving as it does a relationship that is statutory rape on one side and not really consensual on the other and thus squicks me in two directions at once. D:

Comments

[ceitfianna]

You've reminded me that I want to reread Cetaganda, because I remember liking it. I don't think I've ever read Ethan of Athos and Labyrinth is a weird one.

Jackson's Whole always brings the squicky aspects of her books, well written but not my favorite ones. I like either Barrayar or elsewhere much better.

[skygiants]

They all come in a convenient package! I am reading through the series in order using omnibi instead of book-by-book when I can, because that way I get to cheat a little on my reading-balance quotas and count two books as one. >.>

Anyway I am kind of excited because last time I tried to read through in order I got to Cetaganda then stopped, so now I'm officially past where I was before!

[ceitfianna]

I have the books in a mix of omnibi and books on their own just depending on what form I could find them in.

I've always enjoyed the amazing culture creation in Cetaganda and the great Ivan and Miles responses.

[skygiants]

Like I said, though I think some of the aspects of Cetaganda are a little problematic, I really like that she makes the effort to humanize and complicate a group that's been pretty uniformly villainous in other books. Stock villains are boring! Complicated culture clashes and misunderstandings are interesting!

[ceitfianna]

I've always seen actually Jackson Whole as the truer villain of that verse than the Cetagandans because throughout the series, you keep learning more about them.

While with Jackson Whole, pretty much everything you learn is bad and evil and corrupt.

[rymenhild.livejournal.com]

Uh, grammar pedantry. I don't have OED access right now to check, but I'm pretty sure omnibus is already the Latin dative/ablative plural of omnis (="all"), and the suffix is -ibus, not -us. I don't even know how to pluralize it in English, but definitely not -ibi.

that was totally not what I should have been explaining right then. Oh well.

[skygiants]

I haven't really gotten to any of the Jackson's Whole bits yet other than "Labyrinth", but from what I understand I'm about to plunge into that section of canon headfirst with the next omnibus . . .

[ceitfianna]

Oh yes, you really are. I'd forgotten that Labyrinth was the first one. I'll be curious how you feel villain wise for Jackson's Whole versus Cetaganda.

In my reading, Cetaganda is sort of the loyal opponent type, different from us but with their own honor while Jackson's Whole is corruption.

[ceitfianna]

I'm glad to know that. My Latin is quite rusty so I wasn't sure either.

[skygiants]

*cracks up* Rym, I love you. <3

Mind, I am still probably going to use 'omnibi' despite its blatant incorrectness because it entertains me more than 'omnibuses', but I still love you!

[skygiants]

Well, from what I've seen so far in The Vor Game and Ethan of Athos, the conception of Cetaganda as a culture that simply had different rules is something that developed later after their initial portrayal as gobbling expansionists, pure and simple - but it does tend in that direction, yeah. I will be sure to report back when I read further!

[ceitfianna]

*nods*

Yes, she does tend to flesh out the world as she spends more time in it.

[sdelmonte]

Ethan of Athos remains the one MilesVerse book that Batya doesn't recommend. I haven't read it and don't expect to.

[skygiants]

Hmm. I wouldn't necessarily anti-recommend it - it's definitely doing some interesting things (and Bujold's prose is fun regardless) but . . . well, it certainly inspired thoughts and not all of them happy ones. I also think maybe it would have been better if it was a stand-alone rather than in the Miles series, because Ethan is inevitably going to inspire comparisons to Miles as a protagonist, and he is just not as strong.

(Also it was very useful for current Milliways stuff, but that is not really relevant to anyone besides me and Batya and maybe Gen!)

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Given that it only has a few connections to the Vorkosigan series--fundamental, yes, same universe, a few crossed-over characters, and then there's the Terran-C itself--it's arguable the book is a standalone. It was, for example, written long before the Miles books set at that same point in the timeline.

[skygiants]

Well, that's kind of what I mean - there's no particular reason it needs to be set in the Vorkosiganverse for the concept to work, and I think the fact that Miles Puppetmaster is theoretically offscreen somewhere Having a Stake in the Outcome may weaken the book rather than strengthen it.

[batyatoon]

Jackson's Whole is kind of special that way. I ... will be interested to see what you make of Mirror Dance when you get there.

[skygiants]

Well, the next omnibus is "The Borders of Infinity," Brothers in Arms and Mirror Dance, so that should be soonish!

[batyatoon]

Eeeexcellent. *beams at you*

Personally I really love "Labyrinth" for a number of reasons, but I can totally see being squicked by the initial, er, encounter between [spoiler] and [spoiler].

[skygiants]

I can totally see what there is to love about the story as a whole, but that part just brings me screeching to a red-lit halt of "NO NO BAD EXPLOITATIVE NO!" *rueful*

(Hilariously - or not - the little promo page in the front of the paperback omnibus? Totally that scene. "HEY PROSPECTIVE READERS, LOOK AT ALL THE LOLARIOUS SEXYTIEMS!")

[batyatoon]

Yeahhhh I saw that too, and my reaction is something like "...oh god, if the genders in that scene were reversed YOU WOULDN'T DARE."

[skygiants]

FOR SRS. Or - I mean, at least it would not be played up for the Humorous Awkward. (Yes, there are times even I think the Humorous Awkward is inappropriate! AND THEN YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.)

[batyatoon]

Well -- okay further discussion is getting into spoileryness and perhaps we should take it to email or AIM? Your call.

[skygiants]

Hmmm, taking it to email might be good, and requires less work than hunting down spoiler font! (At work, so AIM /= possible at the moment.)

[rahkan.livejournal.com]

Ethan of Athos is way, way better than the only other all-male-planet SF story I've ever read, which is "The Crime and Glory of Commander Suzdal" by Cordwainer Smith. Despite being an absurdly awesome short story, apparently all-male societies become twisted and cruel, absurd mockeries of the natural order of things!

Of course I don't think it's going to ever be possible for anyone to ever write a better single-gender utopia story than Joanna Russ' "When It Changed".

[skygiants]

Oh, yes - I mean, whatever my reservations, there are miles of pitfalls that Bujold avoided in Ethan of Athos and I totally give her points for that.

I need so badly to read Joanna Russ!

[the_croupier]

But if we didn't have Jackson's Whole and what happens in Mirror Dance, then we wouldn't have what happens later in A Civil Campaign, which kept me out of breath from laughing for days and days. =)

[skygiants]

A Civil Campaign I have actually read (out of order, because I am a terrible person) and it is my total favorite! I won't lie, half the reason I'm reading through the series now is to get back to it.