(no subject)

[skygiants]

A REMINDER: No, self, your list of books-to-read is already as tall as your head. You are NOT ALLOWED to go on a Discworld-rereading spree. Yes, you did just get all your Discworld books back from the FBI agent who was holding them hostage for the past three years. But that is no excuse.

SOME CLARIFICATION: I have finally read Unseen Academicals!

My thoughts: on the one hand, I can see why some people are saying this is a weaker Discworld book. As a Discworld book, it is not the best there ever was. There are some things that feature prominently that sort of felt like they came out of left field, for me (the biggest one: Mr. Nutt's BIG SECRET. Like, on the one hand, yes, okay, Terry Pratchett, I see what you did there, and on the other hand . . . what?) and not as many footnotes and a wild spree of plot threads and half-finished parallel/parodies that do not seem quite as tightly-woven as Pratchett can do. I mean, I love the Romeo and Juliet theme and the Cinderella theme, but when you add it to the football parody and the fashion industry parody and the academic politics parody and the whole central issue of Mr. Nutt, that is kiiind of a lot of themes for one book.

On the other hand, there are ways in which I think Unseen Academicals is among the highest tier of Pratchett's stuff - not even necessarily as a Discworld book, but just as a book, if that makes sense - and most of those have to do with the four main characters and their dynamics. At the heart of this book, what you have is four characters who all have interesting and developed and important relationships with each other. The shift in Glenda and Juliet's friendship is as important as the growing friendship between Trevor and Nutt is as important as Nutt learning to trust Glenda is as important as Glenda learning to trust Trevor is as important as the romance between Trevor and Juliet - they all get to grow and change as people through their interactions with all of the others. And I kind of love that a lot. I mean, the Discworld books are always very human in their satire and character growth is at the heart of the best ones anyways, which is why I love them. But this is one of the best, I think, for balancing that growth among an ensemble, and centering it in their relationships, instead of having it triggered by outside factors like, you know, the end of the world.

(Also, I am a total sap for the romance in this one. SHUT UP I am allowed to be shippy sometimes if I want.)

Also also, this is just a ridiculously fun book to read if you are familiar with the series enough to pick up on all the continuity nods. The Old Sam and the Lady Sybil! Rincewind and the half-brick in a sock! Professor Turnipseed! MIGHTILY OATS!

So basically, despite some flaws, when it comes down to it I adored Unseen Academicals. What about you guys? I know a bunch of you must have read it before me - what did you think?

Comments

[spence-reid.livejournal.com]

Why were your Discworld novels being held by an FBI agent? Sorry if you've already gone over this-I'm new. : )

[ceitfianna]

I really enjoyed it for most of the same reasons you did, I loved the characters. I"m okay when his plot is maybe not that great, because it all just worked together.

[rowanberries.livejournal.com]

Well, obviously my judgement is a bit skewed when it comes to Discworld, but I for one spent most of the book going 'WHAT THE HELL DRUGS IS LORD VETINARI ON AHAHAHAHA?!'

In a positive way! The Discworld books are so much my comfort zone that I don't think I can be that impartial when considering them as books; I just know that I very much enjoyed it! All the threads were clever and funny. However, as you said, it could have been better if it were tied together more tightly. Even with a thread or two taken out, although I couldn't pick which one.

(Clearly what I really wanted was for it to be longer so that everything could be developed better... and also, more book! *Greedy fan*)

[innerbrat]

Hey, I'm writing about this book! not allowed to get into a discussion with you as well!

[skygiants]

*giggles* I make it sound like a more dramatic story than it is! What actually happened is a friend of mine from high school borrowed them a few years back, and then graduated college and moved away, after which I kept hearing rumors that he has been recruited by some kind of SECRET GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION. I figured that my books had become classified materials and I would never see them again!

Fortunately I ran into him when I was home over the holidays, when we had this discussion:

ME: So I heard you're with the CIA now.
HIM: Hahaha, how do these crazy rumors get started? What a wacky story!
ME: So what do you do?
HIM: I'm in the FBI working on Asian organized crime, I've been in Japan studying the yakuza. :D
ME: . . .
HIM: So I still have your Discworld books! Would you like them back?

[skygiants]

Yeah, me too. Plot, what plot? MY READING EXPERIENCE WAS ENJOYABLE AND MR. NUTT MADE ME MARSHMALLOWY, that is clearly all that matters!

[skygiants]

HAHAHAHA I KNOW. I love how it is implied that all his plans revolved around SECRET [SPOILER] TEACHING WIZARDS TO PLAY UNIVERSITY FOOTBALL. There is Xanatos Gambit . . . and then there is VETINARI GAMBIT. *dying*

Yeah, I tried to be impartial when writing this review, but it was hard! Because it is DISCWORLD and DISCWORLD I LIKED (not that I don't love all of them! But there are a few that I did not like quite so well, and I knew that) and how is anyone impartial about that? :O

(I APPROVE THIS PLAN.)

[skygiants]

Discussing will help you clarify your thoughts! :D? :D? :D?

[emmaco.livejournal.com]

I liked it too (including the romance)! It was more fun than the recent Nightwatch books.

[skygiants]

I actually liked Thud, but I actually don't like the Moist von Lipwig books as much (I like them! Just . . . not as much as most of the other Discworld books) so I thought this was a nice change from those.

[spence-reid.livejournal.com]

Oh, haha. I guess that makes more sense than them being evidence or something.: )

[ceitfianna]

Yup, also I liked it better than the Moist books which didn't work as well for me. And well its a Discworld book even the ones that I don't like that much, I still like.

Also the ones I tend to expect some kind of plot from are the Vimes' books and even then its not really fancy plot. Its more so who's behind it this time and what will Vimes and Vetinari do to them.

I think Glenda was really my favorite though, I loved her and I will go and get things done attitude.

[ceitfianna]

My favorite bit was the pretending to be sober ruse, it just seems so him. Yes, it wasn't one of his neatest endings but it was fun.

[sdelmonte]

I think PTerry was making a point that Vetinari is adaptable when he has to be, and that perhaps leaders must be like that, even though our man is of course never anything less than the ultimate schemer. Even when he's plastered, he's still got wheels turning within other wheels turning.

That said...yeah, I wasn't sure how well that worked. It was vastly entertaining, but seemed about 3 degrees off.

[sdelmonte]

I loved this book, mainly because I loved the characters. OK, Nutt was a little bit of a Hairy Stu, but he was also utterly endearing. And I adore Glenda - she is one of PTerry's great women, just a few paces behind Angua, Granny and Nanny, and Lady Sybil.

The plot is not perfect, but I think that a lot of this is a failure to translate to American. As much as we are sports fanatics, I think that the neighborhood loyalty to a team is something that we don't get as much, certainly not these days. I bet if you are from cities with multiple soccer teams, it feels a lot more right.

The funny thing is that the whole, flaws and all, adds to a gripping and delightful read that comes up short only when compared with the Guards and Witches books where EVERYTHING was on the line, not just a game. But sometimes a smaller scale is welcome.

[skygiants]

Of course I cannot disclose the details of my sordid life of Pratchett-related crime on this LJ. *solemn*

[skygiants]

It's true, the Vimes books tend to be the most plotty. And the Witch ones tend to pick a theme and stick with them - Macbeth, Cinderella, Phantom of the Opera, etcetera. I think the ones this is closest to in tone are the wizard/Death books, but it's hard to compare it to them either. It's very individual! Which is cool, I tend to like his one-offs a lot.

And YES I love Glenda so much. It is my secret theory that Vetinari is secretly sort-of-training her up like he was Vimes, and she is going to be crucial in the running of the city someday. >:D

[emmaco.livejournal.com]

I liked Thud too (and the other recent books) but this one was a nice change of pace.

[ceitfianna]

Oh yes, I love that I can just know which kind I want to reread depending on my mood. Witches for when I'm in the mood for poking at stories, Watch books for bit of politics and Wizards for something really strange and kind of slapstick.

I feel like in this one, he was trying to combine a lot of these themes and it went a little overboard. I mean it worked but sometimes I like when there's just one thing going on.

[skygiants]

ahhhhhh I just had a really long comment and then it got eaten by LJ ;_;

Um, part one: YES I LOVE NUTT AND GLENDA. Uh, I think that about covers it. Oh, and especially I loved the parts where she was thinking about how people in books don't do cooking, because I remember thinking that as a kid so many times! Admittedly sometimes it came as a comfort to me during those inevitable times I had to face the fact that I was unlikely to turn into an Epic Hero anytime soon. "It's okay," I would tell myself, "I bet Aragorn doesn't know any chocolate-chip cookie recipes!"

Yeah, I was actually really glad that the stakes turned out to be so grounded in - well, reality is the wrong word for a Discworld book, but you know what I mean. When Mysterious Coincidences started occurring I was worried we were going to get a Soul Music or Moving Pictures reality-tearing plot where the latest craze turns out to be a foothold for CREATURES FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION, and while I love those books . . . another one would have felt like a bit of a retread. So it was really nice not to have an Epic Magical Threat, for a change! I like how he's investing some time in the mundane politics of the city.

[skygiants]

Yes - and kind of heartwarming! I came away from it covered in warm fuzzies. :D

[skygiants]

Yes, exactly. Any one of the million threads could have made for a strong story - and I ended up getting so caught up in the Nutt-story that some of the other things seemed a little extraneous, which is a shame, because I really liked them all!

(Though on the other hand, I did really like the misdirection of the Romeo and Juliet-romance. "IT IS A STORY OF STAR-CROSSED LOVE WHERE - oh wait, we're not Romeo and Juliet anymore, we're Posh and Beckham? Uh, okay, sure!")

[campkilkare]

OATS.

OAAAATS.

I spent Boxcon screeching at Merc that she has to read it so I can screech at her about OAAAAAAAAAAATS.

Um, yes. I loved it.

[skygiants]

*cracking up* Dude, I know. I WAS THERE.

(Is that possibly one of the reasons I actually moved it up to the top of my list after it had been sitting on my shelf for a while? MAYBE. That, and it was due back at the library next week. >.>)

However, Oats: SO AWESOME. Who is writing the fic about the next time Mr. Nutt and Oats (and Glenda) meet? SOMEONE MUST BE.

[campkilkare]

Also, maybe this is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said (the NAME alone) but--Glenda is a witch, right? With her magic coming out in the cooking, like Agnes' did through singing? She has the psychology of a witch.

[skygiants]

Oh, totally. She has the psychology of a witch, and the duties of a witch (people come to her when they need help; she helps them. Sometimes she has trouble deciding when they stop needing helping.) But she's an Ankh-Morpork witch through and through, which is fascinating, because that's something we've never seen before.

See above, re: my theory that Glenda is going to be crucial in the post-Patrician running of the city. Vetinari knows a good thing when it comes in to yell at him!

[spence-reid.livejournal.com]

I think Terry would be proud if his books were somehow related to a weird crime. If it was normal, though, he'd just be sad. But if you used his books as the walls for a containment cell for the pig you'd abducted or something, he'd probably want your autograph.

[skygiants]

HOW DID YOU GUESS MY NEXT GENIUS PLAN?



I would never abduct an innocent pig and attempt to train it to speak in clever puns using only Terry Pratchett books as guides. I don't know what you're talking about.

[sophistry]

I LOVED IT. Which was a little strange for me, because normally I'm not as big a fan of the Discworld one-offs as I am of the established sub-series. BUT NUTT. AND GLENDA, HOW I LOVED GLENDA. And - basically I am with you on the million billion sub-plots and themes, and there were definitely points where the book felt kind of all over the place. But for me, personally, it all really, really came together in the end in what may be the best Pterry sucker-punch in years:

"Come on, if you think you're hard enough."

OH MY HEART.

I - I may need to re-read.

[skygiants]

That's because GLENDA IS AMAZING. *_* And so is Nutt! And both together are kind of AMAZING BEYOND IMAGINING, I mean, come on, they are basically going to conquer the world. In a very kind and erudite fashion! (There had better be Nutt-and-Glenda fic in next year's Yuletide, is all I'm saying. Or this year's Yuletide in the Discworld fics I haven't gotten to, come to that. I mean. He wrote her 'TO MY COY MISTRESS'. HE DID THAT. *_*)

ALSO HAHAHA YES THAT WAS AWESOME. Oh Nutt. <333333

[campkilkare]

I am re-reading Hat Full of Sky and I just hit a reminder that there are, in fact, witches who don't know they're witches; Miss Level assumes, at least, that Granny Aching was one.

I think we've seen a lot of such people! It occurs to me that the latest arc of the Discworld has been about creating institutions. Ankh-Morpork under Vetinari works... because Vetinari keeps it working. His end-goal, though, has to be a self-regulating city with a more limited role for both Patrician and Watch, and it seems like he's on the way there.

The football, on that line of thinking, was almost enough to tear apart the city even with Vetinari at the wheel and in the face of the strongest Watch presence in a century. It really did need to be tamed.

[skygiants]

Oh right, I'd forgotten about that!

Hmm, I wonder if we have seen any others in Ankh-Morpork? What I think is interesting is that the witches that we've seen so far are very much a village institution - they know everyone in a small area, and everyone knows them, and that's how they work. Glenda is able to function that way too because of the way the neighborhoods of Ankh-Morpork are divided (especially in this specific book.) But in an less-divided city, which seems to be what Vetinari is going for as well as well as a regulated city, can that kind of witchcraft work? And part of the point of the book seems to be that Glenda needs to escape that system of small, personal demands and try for something greater . . .

Vetinari does seem to know about everyone in Ankh-Morpork (because he's Vetinari) but he doesn't have that kind of personal interaction with them, either. *thoughtful*

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

I have to agree that it's on the weaker side of the series. It tries to take on too much, and gets a little too heavy handed with the serious themes. I like Pratchett best when he's mixing in some very serious stuff, but I feel he did it more smoothly in books like Night Watch and Thud!. And while there are lots of really fun little references for people who know the rest of the series...I feel a little too much of the fun is in those references, and not elsewhere.

At the same time...DANG I LOVE THIS CAST. GLENDA. MR. NUTT. TREVOR. JULIET. GLENDA. And yes, the way all four of them bounce off of and help each other is wonderful.

Also: haha drunk Vetinari

[skygiants]

Yeah, I think Night Watch and Thud are both definitely better as books . . . but I loved the cast of this one so much and the way they interacted, I didn't even care! GLENDA <333333 And MR. NUTT and and EVERYONE. Even Pepe! Even though I was always confused when Pepe showed up in the plot, because there were six million other things going on.

(Also drunk Vetinari was TRULY HILARIOUS. He's great at acting sober!)

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

Yes, Pepe's appearances got confusing. But so badass it was hard to mind. Also: GLENDA. AND MR. NUTT.

(He is quite sure he's drunk, though! Just ask Drumknott!)

[skygiants]

Also, I admit, Pepe/Fashionista Dwarf Lady Whose Name I Have Forgotten was kind of adorable.

Also: GLENDA. AND MR. NUTT. ALWAYS.

(Drumknott judges him from his paperclip-filled desk.)

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

They were excellent partners! In their alcoholic way.

YES. GLENDA AND MR. NUTT.

(Paperclips which he bought with his own money, thank you very much.)

[skygiants]

At least they were fondly alcoholic together!

I firmly believe that someday they will rule the Discworld. Benevolently, and with lots of psychiatry and pie.

(UNLIKE Lord Vetinari, let us point out, who buys them with the taxpayers'. :O)

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

...I think I would like to be ruled in this manner.

(...Actually, Vetinari would like to know where to find these mythical "taxpayers." He hears they make running a city go much more smoothly.)

[skygiants]

I, I would not mind it so much either. All kinds of despotism are better with pie! \o/

(Poor Vetinari's life is so difficult. :( Or would be, if he were anyone other than . . . Vetinari.)

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

As is pretty much everything in life!

(heehee)