skygiants | (no subject)

For the past -- two years? I think it's two years --

aberration and I have been VERY SLOWLY watching our way through Queen Seondeok. We finally managed to finish it. Literally the day before she left the country for two years. PRIORITIES.

Anyway, Queen Seondeok is an extremely epic show that is very, very loosely based on the life of Korea's first queen regnant, who ruled the kingdom of Silla from 632-647 AD. I say loosely because there is, for example, no evidence that the historical Queen Seondeok spent the first third of her life in exile and then cross-dressing as a boy, but, like, why not? WHY THE HECK NOT.

This is Deokman, our plucky temporarily cross-dressing heroine! She kind of joins the army but she's not really .. very good at it ... though she's good at other things! One of the things I really like about Deokman, actually, as well as the series as a whole, is that she was raised in a trading camp in the middle of the desert, and that a lot of her tactical advantage in the early parts of the series comes from, like, knowing lots of languages and having a broad cultural perspective and soaking up information from all around the world! There's a huge plot point that hinges on the fact that she's the only person in Silla who knows how to make curry! I have a whole post in me about how I would like to see more historical fiction and epic fantasy that focuses on the importance of trade, please and thank you.

(Also, while we're talking cross-cultural perspectives, let's all take a moment to appreciate Queen Seondeok's views on the customs of the great Roman empire:

"What on earth are you doing?" "GRABBING YOUR BUTT, AS WE ROMANS DO." Rome: just a giant butt fixation, basically.)

This is Tiny Deokman with her twin sister, Princess Cheonmyung. Cheonmyung is raised in the palace while Deokman is raised in exile while everyone pretends she never existed, because of prophecy and reasons.

This leads to one of my favorite plots in the series, which, like -- ok, you know that Han/Leia plotline, when the scruffy rogue meets the plucky rebel princess, and they have to go on a road trip together, and they spend the entire time squabbling and learning to love each other? Except in this case they're SECRET TWIN SISTERS, and also the only way Deokman gets them out of trouble is literally by throwing tantrums until everybody's too annoyed to kill her. Tiny Deokman is amazing. I love her so much.

This is Lady Mishil, the main antagonist, murder concubine/political mastermind/power behind the throne/would-be-queen.

How do I even begin to describe Lady Mishil? Lady Mishil is flawless. She has a husband, a boyfriend, and a couple of useless sons who all sit around in family meetings vying to impress her. Her eyebrows are probably insured for $10,000. One time she took over the entire palace in a military coup, and it was awesome? It was pretty much awesome.

Even Deokman is like, 'I mean, like, she's flat-out murdered many people I care about, but...damn.'

At one point Mishil looks like she might be getting the worst of a political scheme for the first time in her life, and Deokman turns up in a huff to give her a pep talk, like, "MISHIL I AM DISAPPOINT, WHY AREN'T YOU CRUSHING HIM RUTHLESSLY, YOU'RE BETTER THAN THIS."

(I stole this screencap from

shati, btw, who has a whole post about the beauty of Mishil vs. Deokman here.)

This is Kim Yushin. I'm so happy I was able to find a screencap of him with this rock because this rock is his FAVORITE THING. He likes to hit it with a stick. Yushin is one of those boring characters who after a while becomes endearing precisely because he is so boring. Like, he's not very good at everything that's important in this show, like scheming and politics and propaganda and mind games, but he's very good at being honorable and single-mindedly hitting things with sticks! And judgy faces. He's also quite good at judgy faces.

In theory, he's Deokman's first love interest/the eventual focus of a love triangle between her and her sister Cheonmyung. In practice, they're both like "no, seriously, you can have him" "no you" "NO YOU" while Yushin sadly goes to hit his favorite rock with a stick one thousand times.

This is Bidam, Deokman's love interest #2. He loves murder! Like, not kidding, he's a literal sociopath. His favorite thing is murdering people; his dream is to become Deokman's murder concubine. His backstory angst is about how his father figure stopped loving him because tiny Bidam just murdered too many people. I LAUGHED OUT LOUD.

I don't actually mind the murder; if he had kept being a cheerful sociopath, we would have no problems. The problem is the last 10-15 episodes when he becomes a constantly sobbing sociopath. "Is he gonna murder that person -- no, no, he's just going to cry again. STOP WHINING, BIDAM."

But the last ten episodes are frustrating for a number of reasons -- for a start, everyone grows a really terrible pasted-on beard and it's HUGELY DISTRACTING. Also, a solid 60% of the best characters are dead.

The first fifty are great, though! Sisters, mothers (and adopted mothers), dramatic female nemeses, cross-dressing, politically important curry, and Mishil's eyebrows: content I am always here for.

Crossposts: http://bookelfe.livejournal.com/414083.html

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

meganbmoore

What last 10 episodes? It ends at episode 51, I tell you.

(Psst, Hwajung has trade stuff.)

Edited Date: 2015-05-31 10:48 pm (UTC)

From:

skygiants

I did appreciate some stuff about the last ten episodes! Yushin being the world's worst spy was kind of funny ... um.

(DULY NOTED. :P Though I probably do need to catch up on some shorter stuff before jumping on another epic ... JUST FOR A BREATHER.)

From:

sovay

his dream is to become Deokman's murder concubine.

Barring the last ten episodes, this show sounds amazing.

Talk to me about politically important curry!

From:

meganbmoore

Wolya had nice facial hair? Yushin/Gyebaek haterade was entertaining? (Maybe less so if you didn't watch Gyebaek, though one should only watch the first half of that.)

Breaks are overrated! Uhm...only 14 episodes have aired, so you could catch up quickly and join me in angsting for new episodes?

What shorter stuff?

From:

ashen_key

OMG this sounds amazing. Where can I get my hands on this

From:

meganbmoore

Bi-Dam fails in love with Deok Man when he realizes that she lied to him and sent him to about 60% certain death so she could carry out a stage of her massive political coup. IJS. (Sadly, the usefulness of the last arc and his character in it cannot be stressed enough.)

From:

caramarie

Your description of Bidam is the best and made me laugh his dream is to become Deokman's murder concubine :D

It took me like a year to watch the first 50ish eps and then it's been another year and I've still got 2 to go. Nearly there! I think yes, these last episodes would be better if Bidam would just murder some people already. You gotta stick to your strengths, boy.

From:

meganbmoore

*butts in here too*

It's on both Netflix and Hulu, and i think dramafever still has it, but if those aren't options for you, I can provide. *shifty eyes*

From:

ashen_key

Am Australian with INCREDIBLY expensive internet, so streaming doesn't tend to work with me, buuuuut *speculative*

After this last bunch of homework, I might just hit you up on that. Because, ahhhhhhhhhhh, this sounds SO GREAT.

From:

skygiants

Yushin actually looks better with the facial hair than he did when everyone was trying to pretend he wasn't forty! And Alcheon is beautiful no matter what terrible wisps he is sporting, especially when people drag him out for top-secret meetings with revolutionary armies without telling him that's where they're going. And I don't hate Tiny Lawyer Chunchu, the Dawn Summers of Queen Seondeok, and his great dedication to making sure Bidam doesn't end up as his creepy uncle...

A coworker sent me Sandglass for historical perspective (and Go Hyun-Jung's eyebrows) and I've been vaguely meaning to finish Faith for literal years ... and I need to watch Healer because it's about public broadcasting, apparently. That's what my list looks like right now! I never finished Arang and the Magistrate, either.

From:

meganbmoore

I vote Arang first. Predictably.

From:

meganbmoore

Just let me know.

From:

skygiants

Everyone in the palace -- including Mishil's brother, expert schemer and party planner extraordinaire -- is panicking because the Indian ambassadors are coming and they've lost all their curry powder and nobody knows what ingredients go into making it from scratch! This is an actual plot point. IT'S AMAZING. Deokman then steps up to the plate with her +10 turmeric skills and is therefore able to worm her way into the enemy camp, without letting anybody know that she also speaks several of the languages that the different ambassadors are using and can therefore overhear everybody's secret plans.

From:

skygiants

DOOO IT. I only have the last 30 episodes myself to pass along via *aheming*, but it looks like Megan has you covered. :D

From:

skygiants

IT'S REALLY ALL HE WANTS OUT OF LIFE. Everything goes downhill when Deokman starts asking him to do things that aren't murdering people. Waaaay out of his skillset.

Ugh, every time he's standing next to Yeomjong in the last ten episodes and not murdering him, I'm just like, "seriously? You murdered THOSE TWENTY HELPLESS GUARDS but you just HAD to monologue and cry instead of murdering THIS ONE GUY. What are you even good for, Bidam?!"

From:

hebethen

There was this other historical Korean drama I watched where I couldn't make it through the last bit on account of excessive dying. I wonder if that's a historical-drama thing, everyone biting the dust -- it isn't a genre I frequent heavily, but I recall the big-name-level historical-fiction novels I've read ending up with pretty hefty main-cast body counts too. (Big-name-level as in the traditional sort of history with kings and queens and generals, rather than a more sociological sort of history with farmers and artisans and servants etc.)

From:

skygiants

To be fair to QSD, the dying is happening all through! The last ten episodes don't actually have much more dying, it's just that there's a timeskip so the dying that has already happened really hits home and you're like "oh...this world is now a much less fun place. :("

On the other hand I guess historical drama is somewhat bound by the fact that lots of those people did actually die in history ...

From:

meganbmoore

Sageuks used to usually end with almost everyone you love dead, but less so as we get further from the time when the main audience was middle-aged men.

From:

vass

This sounds AMAZING.

From:

innerbrat

Yushin sounds like my favorite kind of male character.

From:

skygiants

I mean, it's not perfect -- it starts and ends slow, and occasionally they let someone control the camera direction who REALLY LOVES hilarious facial zooms -- but it's a show with MANY extremely sterling qualities. :D

From:

skygiants

Stubborn, single-minded, and possessed of a large stick up his ass? Yeah, pretty much. :P

From:

brownbetty

Unless it's a pretty recent drama, all of them, even.

From:

skygiants

I mean, we don't know that for a fact. Vampire queen of Korea, anyone?

From:

hebethen

That's actually rather interesting; I'd never before considered middle-aged men as a demographic particularly inclined to EVERYONE YOU LOVE IS DEAD!!

From:

hebethen

Oh... that sounds like a heartpunch :\

I guess that's why big-name historical fiction in particular... no-names have more liberty!

From:

meganbmoore

well, technically it was that the demographic was middle-aged men and the plots were (2) almost exclusively about men, with women in very secondary roles, (2) also almost exclusively about the nobility, (3) about either wars or political intrigue. Which often led to EVERYONE YOU LOVE IS DEAD.

Then Dae Jang Geum came along and saved us. Not exclusively, as there were actually several female-centric sageuks that just happened to come out around the same time, but DJG was the one that became internationally famous and took the palace intrigue and made it all about the women, largely relegating the men to secondary roles (and the male lead actually does function primarily as her love interest, and politely bows out for episodes at a time because plot stuff doesn't leave her much time for romantic shenanigans). It also departed from the norm of the time by having a lot of focus on multiple social classes, not just the nobility. Also, about 70-80% of the people you love lived. About the time Damo came along and created the fusion sageuk genere and proved an action heroine could also make for a really popular sageuk. (More male dominated cast than DJG, but still had the female lead, oozed romantic angst, and even more direct class issues. Less kind on the BUT DOES EVERYONE I LOVE DIE front.)

Most sageuks since have been influenced by them, to some degree or another, though there's pretty much always at least one or two of the Old School sageuks on (interestingly, there are actually 2 right now which heavily feature Prince/King Gwanghae-Jingbirok, old school-style series about the Imjin War, and Hwajung, a DJG/QSD style series about Gwanghae's half-sister, Jeongmyung). Now you have a roughly 50% chance of a happy ending.

(And I just realized I might be preaching to the choir for all I know, but I'll leave it here anyway.)

From:

skygiants

Yeah, it's kind of hard to build your story around the premise of 'and then Cleopatra lived to the happy age of eighty!' Although, I mean. You could. If you tried really hard.