skygiants | (no subject)

I am truly not sure if I've just read Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island for the first time, or if I read it for the first time as a child and have just reread it for the first time with the capability of retaining facts about it in my memory.

In either case, it is a little bit unfortunate for Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island that I very definitely saw Muppet Treasure Island as a child, and also as an adolescent, and also as an adult, and many times since ... actually the reason that I decided (two years ago) that it was time to read (or reread) Treasure Island was due to the experience of watching the recent National Theatre Treasure Island and Muppet Treasure Island in relatively quick succession, and feeling slightly disappointed by the portrayal of the main characters' relationships in the NT Treasure Island -- it's a fun production! enjoyable to watch! but there's just so much more interesting depth and complexity in the dynamic between Muppet Treasure Island's Long John and Jim, which is really impressive given that Muppet Treasure Island's Jim is a pretty generic boy soprano who mostly exists to give various Muppets a figure to bounce against.

Anyway, it turns out, unsurprisingly, that the National Theatre production in which Silver is a facile villain for whom Jim has reluctant admiration but zero to no emotional attachment is significantly more accurate to the original than the Muppet version in which Silver is a messy and Machiavellian mentor who has an arguably genuine mutual affection with Jim that persists throughout the film even as Jim's sense of betrayal and disgust rises in proportion to it ... people talk about lovers-to-enemies but parental-figure-to-enemy! that's the stuff!

Although, speaking of lovers-to-enemies, I also think having Ben Gunn be Silver's ex is a genius move even aside from how funny it is to put Miss Piggy in that role. Heightens that narrative tension! Gives all those island dynamics a fun little kick! I did not expect book Ben Gunn to be Silver's ex but I did expect some kind of personal beef between them, and I regret to inform that once again Muppet Treasure Island raised my expectations here where it should not have been raised.

On the other hand, it is very funny when Ben Gunn attempts to fake being Flint's ghost and everyone is briefly frightened and then realizes it's Ben Gunn and decide they don't care:

“It don’t make much odds, do it, now?” asked Dick. “Ben Gunn’s not here in the body any more’n Flint.”

But the older hands greeted this remark with scorn.

“Why, nobody minds Ben Gunn,” cried Merry; “dead or alive, nobody minds him.”

Embarrassing to be the ghost that nobody's worried about! Stevenson is in fact very funny. He has jokes. I also enjoyed very much when Captain Smollett complains that "a secret has been told to the parrot" and Squire Trelawney, bless his heart, is like "....Silver's parrot?" and Captain Smollett has to wearily explain that he was using a turn of phrase and not in fact speaking about a real parrot. Smollett is a real MVP, he really won my heart when he marched into his boss' room on the first day of the voyage and told him everything that he did not like about the voyage in an attempt to get fired because he doesn't like treasure hunting and is annoyed that nobody told him that's what they were doing. I find him very relatable. Jim, on the other hand, I do not find relatable and I don't understand why he does half the things he does, but perhaps that is because I'm no longer of the age to be a cabin boy.

Anyway. Despite my complaints I did enjoy my Treasure Island experience but it really raised Muppet Treasure Island even higher in my esteem than previously. Simply a great film! Turned solid silver into solid gold!

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

sovay

Simply a great film! Turned solid silver into solid gold!

I suppose the obvious question is how much Black Sails owes to Muppet Treasure Island.

(I saw Muppet Treasure Island when it came out in theaters and have not seen it since, but I retain an extremely strong sense of Tim Curry and expect that if I rewatched it, at least fifty percent of it would turn out to have downloaded itself directly into my head in 1996 and just not bothered to inform me.)

From:

jothra

The cast of Black Sails are certainly big fans, anyway.

They have said so multiple times!

From:

sovay

I am delighted to hear this!

From:

shadaras

I only know Treasure Island via Muppet Treasure Island and Treasure Planet! Which, based on this description, is probably somewhat closer to the muppet version than the original in relationship dynamics. xD

From:

aria

I have a vague recollection of the book being a fun but not especially notable example of a Boy's Own Adventure, and am pleased to confirm that it mostly serves as a great jumping-off point for other, better narratives (Treasure Planet, Black Sails, of course Muppet Treasure Island most of all).

From:

pauraque

In the late 90s my Rocky Horror group had a regular gathering where we watched our way through every movie Tim Curry had ever been in, and Muppet Treasure Island was the unexpected runaway favorite. It was a big group with diverse tastes (lots of friendly disagreements over the merits of many of the films) but every single person agreed Muppet Treasure Island was great.

From:

regshoe

I have never seen Muppet Treasure Island, and perhaps that'll make for a better reading experience—this being one of RLS's most famous books, I feel I ought to read it at some point having fallen so much in love with one of the others. It does sound like good fun!

From:

annotated_em

Should I ever accidentally become a gazillionaire, I think I will pour my filthy lucre into a project to fund Muppet adaptations of the literary canon or whatever else would be amusing if given the Muppet treatment.

From:

bookblather

I support your plans for your accidentally-gotten gains and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Also: Princess Bride, please.

From:

chestnut_pod

It truly suffers from the fatal flaw of insufficient Tim Curry!

From:

imbir

Based on this, I think Stevenson also would have loved Muppet Treasure Island.

Jim, on the other hand, I do not find relatable and I don't understand why he does half the things he does, but perhaps that is because I'm no longer of the age to be a cabin boy.

No love for the bit where Jim learns the truth about Silver and is more angered and upset by Silver using the same line of flattery on another boy than the fact that Silver is planning a mutiny? I thought that was well observed.

Edited Date: 2022-10-13 05:53 am (UTC)

From:

lirazel

I've always gone back and forth about whether to read this one because I don't know if it's one I'd enjoy on on its own, but I am interested in reading it as a sequel to Black Sails....

people talk about lovers-to-enemies but parental-figure-to-enemy! that's the stuff!

Agreed! Not enough of this in the world!

I am so delighted to know that this just made you love the Muppet version more. What did we as a species ever do to deserve the Muppets???

From:

larryhammer

Heeeeeee~~~~~!

I am delighted to discover this exists, and wish it were better known in fandom in general.

From:

larryhammer

We created the conditions sufficient to allow Jim Henson to exist.

(Yes, there is so much more to Muppets than Henson, but without him they would not have come together.)

From:

osprey_archer

Muppet Treasure Island is THE best Treasure Island, and it gave the story all the depth and complexity that the book lacked. In high school I saw a stage play based, tragically, on the book and not the Muppet movie, and shocked the adults I had seen it with by upholding the superiority of Muppet Treasure Island in every way, but I stand by it!

In general I feel the Muppets should have adapted more classic literature. My favorite idea is Muppet Around the World in 80 Days with Miss Piggy as the police inspector doggedly following Kermit on his round-the-world quest.

From:

osprey_archer

Thanks for the link! That's delightful!

From:

skygiants

Every time I see this gifset it inches me a little closer into actually watching Black Sails.

From:

skygiants

I haven't seen Black Sails but I do have an undeniable sense that if the creators could have got Tim Curry they would have ...

(He's intensely memorable! Having such a wonderful time!)

From:

skygiants

Whereas I've never actually seen Treasure Planet but now I feel like I should just to round out the trifecta!

From:

skygiants

Yeah, I have read and loved other Stevensons since but the main charms of those are both around the Youthful Camaraderie of the protags and there simply is no youthful camaraderie in Treasure Island! It's a fun adventure but I think you need someone else to come along and put a little more emotional there there. (It does make me want to watch Treasure Planet, though, which I have never seen.)

From:

skygiants

a.) that's an amazing project b.) I'M SO PLEASED TO HEAR THAT. It is simply a masterwork! Every joke lands AND the emotional threads have unexpected heart!

From:

skygiants

Muppet Treasure Island is a delight and I'd recommend it whether or not you ever end up reading Treasure Island!

My actual favorite Stevenson is The Black Arrow, which contains the Wars of the Roses, a charming crossdressing romance, and a pleasingly convincing OT3, though Kidnapped may end up edging it out on a reread. However, I am saving that reread until next time I am in the Scottish Highlands, so right now The Black Arrow can reign supreme.

From:

skygiants

ALL MUPPETS ALL THE TIME

From:

skygiants

His presence really transforms the whole narrative, simply because it's impossible for anyone not to be a little bit in love with Tim Curry!

From:

skygiants

sdjfk;dsj THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS LINK, I only wish I had encountered it in time to nominate it in and of itself for Yuletide. poor Smollett! Stevenson does do Silver leagues better than him, knocked out of the story with an injury midway through.

I did like that bit very much and I would put it in the half the category of things that I do understand about Jim! Emotionally I can broadly track him and then he'll do something like 'jump in a boat with a mutineer for the kicks' and I'm like 'hey Jim where -- where'd that come from? could you explain the logic a little more besides 'we needed a POV character here'?'

From:

skygiants

I have to admit that I am now more interested in Black Sails as a prequel to Treasure Island .... someday perhaps I'll get the fortitude to power through S1!

From:

skygiants

sajdf;kld that's exactly what happened after we saw the National Theatre version -- 'something about this seems curiously disappointing to me,' I said, and then forced all my friends who had just seen a work of brilliant stagecraft watch Muppet Treasure Island with me.

MUPPET 80 DAYS ON THE OTHER HAND IS BRILLIANT. IT IS VISIONARY. (have you played the 80 Days computer game?)

From:

lirazel

I really think you would end up loving it! I get the S1 thing, but it's so worth it!

From:

shadaras

Oh, wow! Yeah, I think you'd find it interesting! It's a fun movie, and I love the aesthetics of it.

From:

bloodygranuaile

I read Treasure Island once way way back in the day and now I am warily eyeing the nice leatherbound copy I have had sitting on my TBR shelf for several years mostly because it looks nice, wondering if it will betray me if I actually pick it up anytime soon. Muppet Treasure Island is an amazing pirate film and the second-best Muppet movie (A Muppet Christmas Carol is the best Muppet movie in addition to being the best A Christmas Carol adaptation and also the best Christmas movie period), and while logically I know that the book does not have Tim Curry or the song "Cabin Fever" I still remember liking it a lot and am worried about being disappointed upon revisiting!