(no subject)

[skygiants]

Disorganized thoughts on Snow White and the Huntsman!



- that movie made zero sense in a lot of ways
- and yet I am totally okay with that, because it made no sense in all the ways that Classic Epic Fantasy about a Destined Chosen King-To-Be makes no sense, except about a Destined Chosen Queen-To-Be, and you know what, still not enough of that out there! So rock on, movie. COMMIT to your bad fantasy tropes self. I AM WITH YOU
- also it was very pretty
- except when fairies were slithering out of the backs of birds because seriously, WTF
- or when Snow White was communing with random helpful horses and mystical stags because HAHAHAHA and also, again, WTF
- also this movie wanted you to make very sure you knew what it shipped, which was hilarious, and fine by me, I am willing to roll with that!
- especially since I could not manage to pay much attention any time the non-Thor love interest was on the screen
- but I am really happy that the movie ended with Snow White becoming queen without having to Pick A Dude or Resolve The Love Triangle, because that's not the point!
- I am totally on board with the rumored sequel and/or trilogy because I really, really want it to be the fourth book of Twelve Kingdoms, in which the queen doesn't know a lot about ruling, because she has never had any training in it, and then learns about ruling and is awesome and responsible, possibly with the help of a couple of revolutionary teenaged girls her own age, and it's great
- but the rumored sequel and/or trilogy probably will not be that in any way :(
- BUT I LIVE IN HOPE
- (also otherwise I have no idea what you would even do with a sequel and/or trilogy
- (but if any of you have ideas, please do tell me!)

Comments

[misslucyjane]

The White Hart is from British/Celtic mythology and turns up in Arthurian legend a lot. What it was doing in SWATH, I have no idea.

I just enjoyed the pretty, in the end.

[skygiants]

I would have been totally on board with that if there had been any kind of . . . coherent mythology . . . .

BUT AS YOU SAY: SURE, PRETTY, WHY NOT

[misslucyjane]

The queen/the ruler=the land, and the White Hart is a guardian of the land?

IT MAKES MY EYES CROSS. Coherency would have been welcome.

[skygiants]

We were speculating on whether all the coherency got cut and left on the cutting room floor and they kept all the set pieces. Perhaps the extended edition will make sense!

[mneme]

Also, it totally felt like as Destined Ruler and Healer of the Land, Snow should have brought the dwarf back from the brink of death. Only, There Must Be Pathos, so that couldn't happen.

[aberration]

Dude, my friend said the same thing about the convenient horse and the answer was obvious: THE BIRDS TOLD THE HORSE TO BE THERE.

Or maybe the fairies in the birds did. SOMETHING.

But yeah, these are generally my thoughts. I do wish it had been more coherent (like, I didn't even understand what happened at the end - was it that Snow White could kill her because she was the Fairest? Or that she had to kill her with a knife with the blood from one of them on it? No clue), especially because I felt like with a decent script doctor it probably could have been a not terrible movie (like, just fewer awkward lines, more jokes that aren't punching Chris Hemsworth in the stomach as totally hilarious as that is, and again just a bit more sense making - I don't need total sense! Just some! More of an excuse for random stag thing, more explanation as to what the fuck happened with that apple, and maybe less random back story that didn't actually shed light on things? I don't know). But whatever, I still had fun with the pretty, campy bs of it.

Also, I'm just saying - the only time Snow White actually kisses someone of her own volition, she's technically kissing a lady. JUST SAYING.

[shati]

And that lady spends the whole movie trying to capture Snow White's heart! Granted, in an alarmingly literal fashion...

[aberration]

"Snow White" is clearly just a patriarchal retelling of a lesbian love story.

... actually it's kind of sad how quickly I whipped that story up in my head.

[skygiants]

I have NO IDEA what happened at the end. DESTINY! MAGIC! PURITY OF HEART! Some...thing...SINGLE SAD TEAR FOR THE HUMAN BEING RAVENNA COULD HAVE BEEN, WE'RE DONE.

Hah, we walked out of the movie, and Gen said, "how much threesome fic do you think fandom will write?" And I said, "Probably not that much! Come on, fandom will write INFINITELY MORE Snow/Ravenna fic than it will write anything to do with William."

(And then Gen said, "but it will probably write more William/Huntsman fic too," to which I had to make faces and agree, despite finding it incomprehensible, because fandom.)

[shati]

Well, if I made the sequel, Chris Hemsworth would find himself pregnant with an egg (is that the terminology? idek) while Snow White would find herself battling (BUT ALSO FALLING IN LOVE WITH) lesbian terrorist insurgents who want DEMOCRACY! and possibly use armies of superpowered fetuses to obtain their desired government structure. How, you say? There is nothing superpowered fetuses can't do. They are also trained to register voters and supervise polls. Meanwhile William would have been turned into a pygmy goat, and would spend most of the movie hopping around the castle bleating adorably.

Then it would turn out they were all actually in the afterlife and living out fairy tales as a way to work through their (symbolically related) personal life issues to the point where they would be ready to shed their current lives and reincarnate, possibly as barnyard livestock but also possibly not. The second film would end with Chris Hemsworth laying his egg, which would crack open and spill rays of brilliant light, and the screen would fade to white, signifying their rebirth.

In the third film, Snow White and Chris Hemsworth would be reborn as [spoilers] and would be sent to [spoiler] Charlize's character, a [spoiler]. An epic battle would ensue in the subways of Tokyo, or maybe New York, I haven't decided. Snow and Chris would have a sparkly transformation sequence where Snow would pull a sniper rifle from his chest. TBC, etc.




You could probably also just go with other fairy tales though.

[shati]

I forgot to mention that the fairies laid the egg in Chris Hemsworth.

[skygiants]

I would hire you to write this movie, but that goes without saying.

Snow White would find herself battling (BUT ALSO FALLING IN LOVE WITH) lesbian terrorist insurgents who want DEMOCRACY!

I forget whether you've actually read Twelve Kingdoms 4, but it does not take much of a stretch to get here from Twelve Kingdoms 4 . . .

. . . no fetuses though . . .

[shati]

I don't want the fetuses, I just know they would happen and I figured I'd try to use their powers for good.

I've only read Twelve Kingdoms 1, but I keep meaning to read the rest. Priority level raised!

[skygiants]

You keep trying but I am not sure it's ever actually possible!

They aren't actually textual lesbians but Yoko does one hundred percent accidentally become BFF with the terrorist teenaged girls who are trying to rebel against her. IT'S GREAT.

[saramily]

So, in Becca's current layout, commenters' names don't stand out really well for me and I usually miss them at first but I got to "pregnant with an egg" and went ahh, Shati.

Armies of Superpowered Fetuses, aka my new band name, really just underlined the point.

[skygiants]

We came up with another really good band name today too but I forget what it was. :( Shati, help!

[jothra]

Yes, precisely. Lots of it didn't make sense, but in that special way that many fairy tales make so sense.

Charlize Theron left toothmarks on every scene she was in, it was great.

The mythology was very mixed up- what was with the Lord's Prayer in the beginning??

I forgave it for most of its faults because it was really pretty, and Kristen Stewart had actual emotions that you could see. Exciting! And she didn't marry either of them in the end. That part was awesome.

I also enjoyed the random backstory, honestly. You so rarely get any kind of legit motive for female villains, especially in fantasy. Revenge for people being dicks and terror about losing your power makes a certain amount of evil sense, you know?

[skygiants]

SO MUCH SCENERY CHEWING. I feel like this gif set sums it all up. "Just think MURDERRRRRRR and walk!"

We had debates about the religion! Half of us were like "but it makes sense, it would be weird not to have religion in a medievalish world" and the other half of us (I was in this half) were like "but . . . . religion NEVER HAS any impact on anybody's actions! AND YOU'D THINK IT MIGHT."

I also enjoyed the random backstory! And the fact that the movie was trying really hard to at least imply that the cause of Ravenna's problems was THE PATRIARCHY. I rely on fandom to write lots of fic that attempts to make sense of everything.

[jothra]

I love that gif set a lot.

There were crosses on the castle! I SAW THEM. I am with you. Half the time, no one mentions religion in fairy tales! You could easily get away with not having Christianity at least, especially if you have magic and fairies and are very unclear about where your story takes place.

The patriarchy might have been the start of her problem, but I think she rolled down the misanthropy hill pretty fast. Considering the 'I WILL GIVE THEM THE QUEEN THEY DESERVE' line.

[skygiants]

Exactly! If you're going to establish religion, then at least have someone MENTION how they think the queen is an agent of the devil or something and not just roll with the 'lol, magic' train.

Hah, well, yeah, I don't think anybody is denying that her personal rebellion against THE MAN was something of an overreaction. Especially since it mostly expressed itself as violence against other ladies . . .

[schiarire]

ALSO LILY COLE!

[skygiants]

LILY COLE WAS VERY SURPRISING! And especially hilarious in terms of her age-flopping, since at one point I used her as a PB for Sophie Hatter . . .

[schiarire]

WHAT.

ARE YOU PRESCIENT.

[skygiants]

APPARENTLY!

[schiarire]

I hope you and Shati script the next movie.

[skygiants]

IT WOULD BE A REALLY . . .

I was going to write 'good' but perhaps that is the wrong word. Singular? Entertaining? Terroromantic? Fetus-tastic? movie!

[lacewood]

I think the director could have stood to cut the middle "ALL THE LANDCAPES" section by say... half, and used that time to construct a final act that maybe... could make some logical sense? But I guess the lure of the pretty landscapes was just TOO STRONG.

THOSE FAIRIES. I kept staring at them completely undecided whether they were supposed to be creepy or cute or BOTH AT ONCE. Guys, I'm not sure... what you're trying to achieve here...

On the other hand, Ravenna was EXCELLENT, the movie passed the Becdel test in ways I didn't expect it to bother with and I completely appreciated that the supposed love triangle was not even HALF an issue. William and Eric seem to basically recognise each other as the two people MOST TOTALLY OVERINVESTED in Snow White staying alive and are cool with that. And Snow White mostly has bigger things on her mind than choosing anyone. A+ guys.

I'm still kind of sad that they killed Ravenna though, despite all the writing on the wall. I was secretly hoping Snow White could maybe Disney-Princess her into a state of more ambigious evil. Or not so secretly. XD

[skygiants]

But if we didn't have all the landscapes, how would we catch the visual allusions to Lord of the Rings? NO, CLEARLY THE LANDSCAPES HAD TO STAY. As did the random stag. And the creepy fairies of WTF.

I was really pleased with the Bechdel passing! And with the non-issue of the love triangle. Everyone has their priorities in order, which is saving the kingdom >>>>> romance, and I thoroughly appreciate that. SO WELL PLAYED, INDEED.

After she killed all those people I kind of figured there was going to be no power of love redemption for Ravenna, alas. But there's always AUs!

[lacewood]

I'm sure the audience could have gotten the LotR point with the same amount of landscape more speedily traversed! After the movie I got into a brief discussion on the peculiar concept on distance in Snow White's kingdom, because it apparently takes weeks to get from the Dark Forest to the Duke's castle, but William manages to get to the vicinity of the Queen's castle in... less than a day. Clearly they took the scenic route. XD

THE MOVIE WAS SO WEIRDLY UNDECIDED ON WHO EXACTLY RAVENNA WAS KILLING THOUGH. I mean, she definitely killed Snow White's dad and that random dude who stabbed her, but on the other hand, Greta survived having her youth sucked from her and only got... old herself? Which apparently magically reversed once Snow White killed Ravenna? So exactly what ARE your chances of survival when the Queen uses you as her magical youth and beauty battery? Do the other girls survive? WHAT IS THIS, MOVIE, EXPLAIN YOURSELF. >:(

Okay, self, stop trying to apply logic to this movie. Also, stop rewriting it in your head. JUST STOP THAT RIGHT NOW.

[skygiants]

Maybe they just thought they were walking for weeks when actually they were stuck in some particularly hallucinogenic spot of the Dark Forest? This would also explain all the stuff that happens in the Dark Forest that does not make much sense, like Snow White accidentally speaking troll language. ALTHOUGH THAT WAS HILARIOUS. (We speculated that Snow White managed to say "WHAT WOULD YOUR MOTHER THINK" in troll language; the Huntsman was also trying to say this, but he only got as far as "YOUR MOM.")

And hah, yeah, I know, right? I have NO IDEA how Lily Cole got her youth and beauty back. Like, obviously Mrs. Huntsman is pretty really dead, but maybe you just die of old age/natural causes as a side effect of being de-youthenated and not of the de-youthenation process itself?

But I want people to rewrite it in their heads! And then share their rewrites with me so it's better!

[lacewood]

... Well, I guess "mass hallucinations" would explain the middle portion of the movie as well as anything else. HAHAHA THAT TROLL. After the fairies turned up I decided they were probably to blame for everything else because WHY NOT. If they can possess a bird, they can possess a horse/troll/etc!

I KNOOOW. And given the AMOUNT OF MAGIC the Queen was using, you would presume she'd used up whatever beauty/youth/magic she'd taken, rather than... have it still hanging around to conveniently go back to the original owner. Also does this mean the castle dundgeons are full of half-dead old ladies they just leave there until they die? Seems... inefficient. Screenwriters, have you never read a fantasy novel, just because it's magic doesn't mean it doesn't have to make sense okay. *shakes fist*

Come to think, the biggest question we all had after the movie was why did the Queen let Snow White live at all? A question to which I have not been able to devise a satisfactory answer. XD The version in my head apparently involves creepy ritual sacrifices and Snow White actually getting a token month of military training before they stormed the castle and probably... doesn't make much more sense than the movie...

[skygiants]

All I'm saying is, if Frodo had known that trick of "try to roar at it and it'll look sort of sheepish and go away," Lord of the Rings would have been a very different movie!

AND SERIOUSLY. Like, I am all for Lily Cole surviving and being young again instead of Creepy Brother, but you'd think she would have . . . tried to use that to save Creepy Brother . . . I do like the notion that the dungeons are just crammed full of cranky old ladies, though. ARMIES OF OLD LADIES. What you didn't see is the part of the movie where a dwarf went and freed all the angry old ladies and then they started laying about them with buckets and knitting needles.

The version in my head involves a weird personal bond that the Queen felt for Snow White where their first meeting and times when the Queen went to visit her that were alluded to and never seen (I WANTED THEM TO BE SEEN) had some kind of relevance! I WANT FANDOM TO GIVE ME THIS VERSION. I'm waiting, fandom!

[mneme]

Lisa caught the nail on the head when she said at its opening that Fairie was from Princess Mononoke. Then the stag showed up and got shot at and turned into butterflies and...well.

[varadia]

I am just bitter that there was a gem of a movie that hit ALL MY ID BUTTONS in there, but it got sidetracked by pretty landscapes.

But man, the movie in my head is pretty awesome, so I cannot complain.

[skygiants]

I would really really have liked to see the movie in your head! But since I do not have telepathy I will be content with the one that we had.

[varadia]

I would really like to see your sequel idea played out.

TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Via . . . mindpowers.

Yes.

That could NOT GO WRONG.

[skygiants]

I feel OUR POWERS COMBINED could only bring works of EXCELLENCE AND BEAUTY to the universe!

We can also include Shati just to make sure we have the fetus component covered.

[aberration]

I want to hear about the movie in your head!!!!!

[campkilkare]

Belated, but:

I was more-or-less on board until the last act! Really I was much more bothered by failures of story sense than logistical sense; closing out the battle scene with the mirror still there and Snow White looking into it was just... wrong. If you don't have a resolution for your big evil mcguffin, at least don't draw attention to it still being there, being all ominous. It cast a really weird pall over the victory. Maybe the sequel will involve her being tempted by its power, or something? In general the last fight scene between them, with them scrabbling on the floor and the glass monster keeping the other charcters busy in the hallway, just felt like a half-assed "and then the movie's over, I guess."

(why does she even HAVE glass monsters? When I saw them in the trailers I assume it was mirror-related, but.... nope.)

[skygiants]

Man, I don't want a sequel where Snow White is Tempted By the Mirror's Power, but I can't figure that that was foreshadowing anything else. While we were waiting to see if there would be a post-credits scene, we were speculating that it might be something with the mirror doing . . . something creepy . . . but no I guess it standing there being ominous was it! I mean this was part of the general lack of any kind of magical coherence in general, but still.

(WHY DOES SHE EVEN HAVE THAT LEVER)

[aamalie]

I saw this in theaters, then went and watched a terrible cam rip online because I needed to see it again, and I am sad to confess to how much thought I have given to reorganizing the terrible worldbuilding into something coherent. USING MY TIME ABROAD PRODUCTIVELY, YEP. (Particularly with the coexistence of Christianity and the recurrent very Celtic-influenced mythological references, and then with the three drops of blood falling being some sort of fairy or inherently magical thing, since both Snow White's birth and Ravenna's powers were precluded by that, and then also Ravenna's undoing.)

I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE A LOT OF THOUGHTS. NOT MANY OF THEM ARE COHERENT, BUT THEY'RE THERE.

[skygiants]

I WANT YOUR THOUGHTS! Coherent or not! I would so like to see the version of the story that you worldbuilt. I wish Hollywood had just hired all my friends to make this movie. It would have been a MUCH BETTER movie.