skygiants | (no subject)

I write these words, Dear Reader, from my thoroughly box-filled new apartment, whence I am working today as I wait for the cable company to come bringing the blessing of (non-stolen) internet. In other words, move-in was successful! There may be another round or two of Furniture Tetris still to come as I try and fit everything in an arrangement that will actually let me go through doors without having to climb over something, but the important thing is that I am here and it is mine. *_*

And now: back to your regularly scheduled booklogging, with Jews With Swords! Okay, the actual book is Gentlemen of the Road by Michael Chabon, but the best part of the otherwise awkward author's note (seriously, Chabon, you can stop bragging/apologizing about your genre fiction now! IT'S OKAY) is the knowledge that this was totally the original title. Anyway, I thought it was awesome! I can see how people would hate the ridiculously overwrought wordiness of the prose, but I kind of love it, and Amram and Zelikman's unapologetic bromance, and how Zelikman is totally an emo kid, and the fact that Amram is a Jew who isn't white, and the whole sheer adventure bounciness of the whole thing. (I don't want it to be ever made into a movie. Not that it wouldn't be an awesome movie in theory, but the movie would make Amram Zelikman's sidekick, and that would suck.) Also, this is maybe the first time ever that I was actually surprised by the presence of a cross-dressing girl! I totally should have seen it coming, there is no excuse. Though, uh, I could have done without the rape. Or every other woman in the story being a lovable whore.

I have to admit, I joked about my mom being super-excited about Jewish werewolves and Jewish wizards yesterday, but she is not the only one; I totally get kind of gleeful when I see Jews running around in action and fantasy and sff doing stuff. Sometimes they hit wrong, of course, but it's still kind of nice that the effort is there. I am actually really curious about which Jewish fictional characters make people go 'you're kind of doing it wrong' - I know Sofia in The Sparrow hit me a couple of wrong ways,

rymenhild facemakes at Kevin Laine from the Fionavar Tapestry and

newredshoes bounced off the whole Yiddish Policeman's Union. It makes sense that different things bother different people, obviously, because not everyone's experience is the same! So if you guys have examples I would love to hear them. Examples of 'doing it right' would be awesome too.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

newredshoes

Seriously, it's amazing when Jews are something other than 1) cranky old people in Central Park, 2) Holocaust victims or 3) neurotic Hollywood people! I vote yes on being gleeful! (Also, I will be stalking this entry for recs.)

I have a whole Thing brewing about the Jewish soldier in Band of Brothers -- the first time I'm ever setting out to actively write meta as fic. It's a good thing! I mean, they actually did Liebgott really well. I just need to, y'know, get off my rear and write it.

As for doing it wrong, I recently saw an episode of Standoff that did it really, really wrong with an Israeli, complete with skinny American non-Jew badgering him about how to get in touch with his soul again. He can be a brilliant doctor and the best in his field... but no one can ever love him. *headdesk. headdesk. headdesk.*

Gah, edit #2, sorry -- congrats on the move-in! New apartment smell... er, well. Or the equivalent!

Edited Date: 2009-09-01 04:37 pm (UTC)

From:

vivien

I'm curious about opinions of Stan Uris from It. He was one of the first Jewish characters I read about that was not in a Judy Blume book, and he wasn't, as Esther says, cranky in Central Park, a Holocaust victim, or neurotic in Hollywood.

From:

skygiants

Seriously, right? (Actually the one other good thing about Chabon's essay at the end was when he talked about how he would tell people he was going to write a book called Jews With Swords, and everyone would immediately picture Woody Allen. Which, I mean. Nothing against Woody Allen! BUT.)

That's actually one of the main reasons I really want/need to see Band of Brothers (and one of these days soon when I have time I will!) is because I've heard you talking about Liebgott and I am really curious.

- ahahahaha oh man. American perceptions of Israelis are kind of hilarious in general. Actually I think half the time Jewish women are on TV, it is because they are Stone Cold Mossad-Trained Killers! As all Israeli women are, naturally.

And thank you! :D Right now, mostly Chinese takeout smell. BUT STILL. \o/

From:

newredshoes

Ahaha, oh yes. DO NOT EVEN GET ME STARTED on Y: The Last Man.

I will just victory-arms at you with the other stuff! Otherwise I risk devolving into a flailing, thrashing mess talking about how good BoB is. (Seriously, "Why We Fight" -- not that you won't be destroyed by every other episode, but you will be destroyed by that one.)

From:

skygiants

I don't remember It all that well, but I do remember being glad he was there, and liking his portrayal as a kid - and also being sad that we didn't get to see him as an adult, that he was the one who Didn't Make It.

I actually remember Batya talking about Stan Uris in chat a few days ago, though, so I am going to hope she weighs in here because she knows the book a lot better!

From:

skygiants

OH MAN YES. And, I mean, I can't believe I only started noticing recently how stone-cold Mossad killer ladies are everywhere. NCIS has one! Heroes had one! Leverage had one in the most recent episode! I think the numbers here are SOMEWHAT DISPROPORTIONATE TO REALITY.

I know I know I know! :D I really do need to watch it. But I figured it was not so much great for "pay half-attention to while sewing" TV, so it was out of the running for pre-Dragon*Con. *sheepish*

From:

newredshoes

Hee! Very, very true -- I've seen it, like, eight times now, and I still can't spend a second looking away. BUT this is me hijacking your post to talk about my fandom. DONE NOW.

(Okay, maybe not. Very much looking forward to your thoughts and reactions and talking with you about it!)

From:

ceitfianna

Yay for moving in tetris, I'm still playing that with boxes and realizing I need more things to store stuff in and frames.

Also speaking of perceptions of Israelis, I have a rather odd story of one. The guy I dated in New Zealand, his mother is Israeli, at least she considers herself as such since she went to university there and served in the army. But she's also spent time in England and Holland and her family is all over Europe. I found her a joy since she had such knowledge of so much of Europe and the way she would define herself as being Israeli was that she was blunter and more honest than other people.

Her son tried to do this but he missed an critical thing, her honesty had caring behind it, his usually had cruelty. I'm not sure how relevant this is, but from reading the discussion below, its what I thought of.

From:

skygiants

Ah, yes, but in light of media representation, I feel the pertinent question is: was either this guy or his mother a MOSSAD KILLING MACHINE?

(On a more less lulzy note, that kind of directness is something that some of the Israelis I know do consider being part of their culture - though obviously I don't want to make sweeping generalizations, as, a.) I am not well-versed enough, and, b.) I try to avoid sweeping generalizations overall.)

From:

ceitfianna

*snerks*

No, but she was a scary lady when you messed with her. He was just scary in other ways, not one of my best boyfriend choices.

Oh nice, I don't know that many Israelis at all so its interesting to know that's sort of one of their own ways to define themselves.

From:

batyatoon

*weighs in!*

I still think one of the more powerful moments of IT is kid!Stan not having the words to articulate what really upsets him about all of this; it scares him, yes, but it also offends him, offends his sense of order and logic and rationality. I loved him so much for that.

I would have liked a little more about what his Jewishness means to him, but it wouldn't really have fit with the book. Especially because we don't get to see him as an adult, as Becca says.

From:

batyatoon

I actually really loved The Yiddish Policemen's Union, in the way where it made me cry. A lot. Like for half an hour after I'd finished the book.

I want to make a list now, of fictional Jewish characters I have liked and disliked and been indifferent to.

(Tell you right now: don't ever read Joel Rosenberg's Not For Glory.)

From:

skygiants

I really liked it too, though not, I think, the way you did - but at the same time, I understand when Esther says that it's Not Her Judaism. Because it's different for everyone, you know?

Batya, PLEASE make that list. I would so love to see it! With reasons!

(Ahahaha duly noted.)

From:

rahkan.livejournal.com

I can only hope the crossover fanfic where the Gentlemen of the Road face-off against the Emanuel brothers super crimefighting spandex sleuth team is going to be forthcoming.

From:

skygiants

It would have to be the Emmanuel Brothers Super Crimefighting Time-Travelling Spandex Sleuth Team!

Which I have to admit is not really a point against . . .