(no subject)

[skygiants]

So I seem to vaguely remember from the last time one of those 100 Great Books/Classics/Randomly Chosen Pieces of Literature memes went out seeing a lot of Dickens hate around my reading list. And I kind of hunched my head over and felt awkward and lonely, because, while I totally get it . . . I kind of love Dickens? In that way where you love things that were written by middle-class dead white guys who were paid by the word, but also in that way where you love things that are built on a mixture of hilarious satire and hilarious sentimentality and memorable characters and people occasionally bursting spontaneously into flames.

For all my love, though, it has been a while since I've actually read any Dickens! And I actually missed out completely on A Tale of Two Cities in my youth, and it seemed to be the focal point of a lot of dislike at the time, so last week I decided to regress to high school and pick it back up.

A Tale of Two Cities is kind of weird, because the half that is set in London is pretty typical Dickens - satiric, witty, lots of banker and lawyer jokes - and the half that is set in Paris is all DOOM DOOM BLOOD DOOM TRAGEDY BLOOD MELODRAMA DID I MENTION DOOM. The coolest characters of course are the antagonists, Madame Defarge and Sydney Carton. Well, okay, the Reader's Guide in the back of my one-dollar used-bookstore copy claims Sydney Carton as an antagonist. I am kind of dubious about this. This is what we are presented with as the Tragedy of Sydney Carton:

SYDNEY CARTON: I am depraved and debauched! I love you but I will never ask to marry you because I could only lead you into a miserable life of depraved debauchery.
THE PURE LOVE INTEREST: . . . really? Because, I mean, you have a pretty respectable job as a lawyer's assistant, and -
SYDNEY CARTON: Do not hope to redeem me! I am beyond hope.
THE PURE LOVE INTEREST: Do you have some dark secret in your past or something? Because -
SYDNEY CARTON: Well, I'm an underachiever and I get drunk sometimes. And that one time, I told your boyfriend I didn't like him! For no good reason.
THE PURE LOVE INTEREST: Look, dude, over in the other half the plot in France, we've got rebellion and rape and murder and aristocrats squashing small children in their carriages of decadence, so if you really want me to consider you a tragic villain you might want to ramp it up a little.
SYDNEY CARTON: Please stop trying to convince me I could be anything other than a villain! Just remember me sympathetically once in a while as I continue my epic downward spiral into a lonely grave, that is all I ask -
THE PURE LOVE INTEREST: Okay, I will go on remembering you as a middle-class lawyer's assistant. But look, are you sure there's no dark secret in your tragc past here? Because there is that whole thing about how you look creepily like my husband, and -
SYDNEY CARTON: No, I'm pretty sure we're just never going to explain that.

I like Sydney Carton - I especially like his habit of totally drugging the kind of boring and oblivious Actual Hero when it looks like Actual Hero is going to inconveniently get in the way of his own rescue; it shows good sense and practicality! - but half the reason that I find him interesting is because as far as I can tell there is pretty much nothing in his life to justify all his very dramatic self-loathing. I can only make sense of him if I assume he is somewhere on the depressive spectrum, which is sort of an interesting deconstruction of the character type, in a way.

Meanwhile, as far as Merciless Knitter of the Revolution Madame Defarge goes, I just spent the whole book passionately shipping her with her lieutenant-sidekick La Vengeance.

But okay, while I am on the topic of Dickens, I am kind of curious here, so:

[Poll #1604945]

Comments

[furikku.livejournal.com]

I am a Dickens hater, but I am all for people enjoying literary classics! Or nonclassics!

Basically I am for people enjoying things. Provided these things are not directly harming other people.

[skygiants]

I am pretty much for that too! o/

[libitina]

I have a grudge against Thomas Hardy that is specific to him, and not general to all dead white males. See, I've only read two or three of his books, but I can spot a film adaptation of his books a mile off two-thirds of the way through the movie.

There's always this point in the storyline where things could go two ways: either toward a happy-ish ending and a resolution or towards sad boring doom and depression and ennui and pain and agony. And that's the point at which I end up going, "Oh, fuck! This was a Thomas Hardy book, wasn't it?" ~stab~ And I never remember to check the source text until that moment of pain 2/3 of the way through the story.

[skygiants]

I've actually never read any Thomas Hardy, but I've heard a lot about his tendencies to resolve things in the most dismal and depressing fashion imaginable. I keep thinking, 'maybe I should try . . . or maybe I could read something that will not crush my soul.'

[wavesofwood.livejournal.com]

I love Great Expectations madly and unreasonably! But I've never felt the same about any other Dickens, although I do enjoy it in a OH THE SWEET SWEET CRACK way. Also, this (http://beatonna.livejournal.com/135984.html).

[skygiants]

Hahahaha as usual with Kate Beaton, SO TRUE.

I also love Great Expectations madly! My secret favorite though is Our Mutual Friend, which features one of my favorite bulletproof character types, the tiny snarky super-cranky adolescent girl.

[gramarye1971]

I have a hard time (or should it be Hard Times? HAH) with most of Dickens' loooooooong fiction, but I've enjoyed his shorter writings. If you can get your hands on the early collection Sketches by Boz, which is probably the best-known and most readily available of the sketch collections, I think you might find it a fun reading choice. Dickens was a parliamentary sketch writer in the days when any coverage of the Houses of Parliament was thin on the ground -- even Hansard was barely around then, let alone regular newspaper reporting -- and Sketches contains at least one amusing account of parliamentary life. Mostly, he likes to make fun of the social climbing middle classes, and especially the awful marriage brokering tactics of the late Regency and early Victorian periods.

His nonfiction looks interesting as well, and they're on my general to-read list. I haven't yet found dead-tree copies of The Uncommercial Traveller or American Notes, though both are online at Project Gutenberg and elsewhere.

[skygiants]

I should totally read his shorter writing and his nonfiction! Though I also expect American Notes to be sort of hilarious from an American perspective.

I do actually really enjoy the longer books - I tend to think Dickens is at his best when he can throw in FIVE MILLION characters, because inevitably those are always the most fun - but then I also grew up loving Victor Hugo, so I am just grateful he does not put in ninety-page digressions on the Parisian sewer system.

[genarti]

I read Great Expectations in eighth grade, and I haaaaaated it. Hated it with a burning passion, and decided on the basis of that that I hated Dickens.

Then we read Tale of Two Cities in ninth grade, and I discovered to my surprise that he was kind of fun after all! Ridiculous and wordy and prone to tangents and contrived things like two inexplicably identical heroes, but still fun. The other Dickens books I have read have cemented that kinda-fondness. He's not someone I specifically go to for fun reading, but I would have no aversion to reading more. They are quick reads in a 19th century way, and I like the rhythm of the language even though it's not great prose, and a generally fun story with some interesting social commentary mixed in.

Someday maybe I'll give Great Expectations another try. We'll see.

[skygiants]

The two inexplicably identical heroes JUST ADD TO THE AWESOME, is my opinion. (I laugh because I kept thinking I knew where the plot was going because he had to explain the identical heroes somehow, right? I came up with so many theories! And I kept guessing wrong, because he never did.)

I'd actually forgotten how much I really enjoy Dicken's language - occasionally I'd come across a sentence I just want to bash my head against, but equally as often I'll be reading along and just pause a moment to admire a nice analogy or witty turn of phrase. I mean, not necessarily poetic, but he can be a very clever writer.

[catslash.livejournal.com]

I am cool with dead white nineteenth-century British author dudes as a general rule, but oh man I hate Dickens so much. Your first ticky box sums up why so accurately that it cracked me up. Haaaaaaaate. And the hate actually started with being assigned A Tale of Two Cities when I was sixteen. And of course smart people are "supposed" to like THE CLASSICS, so I was profoundly relieved when the Internet told me that hating Dickens is perfectly okay. (I have similar feelings about Catcher in the Rye; it's hilarious to tell people IRL that you hate that book, because there is so much gasping and pearl-clutching in response, whereas if you do it on the internet, a lot of people will agree with you! Fervently.)

Aaaaanyway. There's no option for those of us who just hate Dickens by himself, so I felt the need to explain myself here instead.

(I hope I do not have to say that nothing in this comment is in any way meant as a judgment on Dickens fans!)

[skygiants]

*giggling* It is okay, I will just go into the persecuted corner and cry about why people hate things I love. No, really, I do get why people don't like Dickens! I started reading him early, so all the stuff that people I think often find frustrating I just often find hilarious. I will laugh if I turn out to be the only person who clicks the Dickens-loving option on the poll, though.

(My feelings are actually really weirdly neutral about Catcher in the Rye. I neither like nor dislike it! I've met lots of people in real life who hated it, though. Maybe it was cooler to hate it in my high school.)

[rymenhild.livejournal.com]

I think I need to go back to Dickens. I've always hated him, but I think I might like him better if I tried again. Also, I'd hate to knock out Walter Scott, Arthur Conan Doyle and Oscar Wilde in the dead white nineteenth-century British guy category.

[skygiants]

I want to be able to rec you one, but all my favorites are giant bricks and so maybe not the best place to start . . . like, I love Bleak House for a number of reasons, but I would not tell ANYONE to start with the eight-hundred-page monster if they were already coming to Dickens with a dislike.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

From what I've read (Oliver Twist, David Copperfield, Great Expectations, A Christmas Carol), Dickens has all the nuances of a sledgehammer but is quite enjoyable up to the last act when everything falls apart. So not a fan, but not a hater either.

My dad claims that I'm the kind of gal who'd enjoy Thackeray, but I've never read Thackeray so I can't tell.

[skygiants]

Sometimes not everything falls apart! Sometimes he really does do happy endings! Sort of. I mean, okay, sometimes the happy ending is a guy nobly dying for the sake of the point Dickens wants to make, BUT STILL.

I've never read Thackeray either, though I keep meaning to. So many classics, so little time!

[arefadedaway.livejournal.com]

I love Dickens for all the same reasons as you do! Especially because my "love" is probably better classified as "LOL THE CRACK AND MELODRAMA, GIMME MORE." I've always had a soft spot for the old guy; I non-ironically completely and utterly adore Bleak House and A Christmas Carol. So!

[skygiants]

YOU UNDERSTAND. It's so completely over-the-top and awesome! *___* Bleak House is totally one of my favorites; I've been meaning to reread it for years and years. I've actually not yet read A Christmas Carol, though I do mean to. On the other hand I also have this terrible fear that when I do I will be unable to envisage everyone as anything other than cartoon ducks. Thanks, Disney.

[moonyazu9.livejournal.com]

*high five* Dickens lover! And I may have to try Thomas Hardy now…hmm…

But on the subject of Dickens, he is awesome. Loved Oliver Twist and The Mystery of Edwin Drood especially.

[skygiants]

*high fives back*

Hahaha, I think I would love Edwin Drood but I can't read it because I know I will find the fact that it doesn't have an ending the MOST FRUSTRATING thing.

[agentclaudia.livejournal.com]

I usually mostly like Dickens, although sometimes I run out of patience a little bit, because while he is frequently entertaining there is a voice in my head that goes "When ladies write stories that are this fucking convoluted and completely switch genres from the beginning to the end (I AM LOOKING AT YOU, PICKWICK PAPERS), people take this as evidence that ladies can't write FOR SHIT." So, I enjoy reading him, but... Jane Austen wouldn't be allowed to be Jane Austen if she wrote as badly as Dickens, and we all know it.

Also, while I like many 19th century dead white guys (I actually really love Thomas Hardy, because I am all gothy like that), I also really hate Herman Melville, and the guy who wrote Confessions of an Opium Addict, and sometimes HG Wells, and some other ones, so whenever Dickens annoys me I remind myself that I could be reading Melville instead.

[skygiants]

On the other hand, I would love Jane Austen ALL THE MORE if in one of her books she just had some dude randomly burst into flame. But your point is definitely taken.

H.G. Wells just makes me laugh, because I cannot dissociate his works from a.) how much of a hilarious jerk he was in real live, and b.) the movie that my mom was a big fan of where H.G. Wells time-travels to the future to chase down Jack the Ripper.

[bookblather.livejournal.com]

I love Dickens passionately. Just, something about the way he writes. I may go into fits of rage about his anti-Semitism in Oliver Twist or the sheer ignorance of and hatred for women in Great Expectations, but I still love Dickens. I also adore Wilkie Collins and Elizabeth Gaskell, as far as Victorian writers go.

Thomas Hardy, on the other hand, I would like to punch in the face. Fraking Jude the Obscure. That's three weeks of my life I'll never get back.

[skygiants]

After reading Our Mutual Friend I find the anti-Semitism in Oliver Twist a lot more to take, because Our Mutual Friend is the one where Dickens kind of sheepishly scratches his head and is like "so . . . the Jews . . . they're kinda persecuted, huh? Here, have a sympathetic Jewish character talking about how much that sucks uh sorry about the whole Fagin thing." Which is why Our Mutual Friend is my favorite. (That, and it has my favorite Dickens lady.)

I have a love-hate relationship with Wilkie Collins! I loved The Moonstone, and I alternately loved The Woman in White and wanted to throw it against a wall. One of these days I've definitely got to get around to Elizabeth Gaskell.

[silveraspen]

So I read whatever was assigned in junior high or high school, and then I tried to find more to read.

... in theory I have read A Tale of Two Cities. Also Great Expectations. And David Copperfield. I think I took that one with me on a family vacation.

But I cannot remember any of it. Strange.

[skygiants]

Hah! Well, I mean, Bleak House is one of my favorites and I can't remember 3/4 of the plot, so . . . I'm in no position to judge for that. *giggling*

[spellcoats.livejournal.com]

I am prejudiced against a majority of the so-called classics.

[skygiants]

That's fair! I do really love many of them in all their ridiculous, over-wordy glory, but that doesn't mean I think they're necessarily more worthy or necessary to read than anything else.

[cerusee.livejournal.com]

I've never read anything by Dickens--I feel an abridged graphic novel adaptation of Great Expectations doesn't really count, no matter how awesome Rick Geary is--but I have the same kind of relationship to post-modernism! Every I know hates it passionately, and I'm in the corner making sad eyes, going "What's not to love? This shit is awesome!"

[skygiants]

In fellow-feeling, I sympathize! In specifics, I, uh, also often find myself extremely frustrated with post-modernism. >.> But I understand there are things to love! They are just not at all my things.

[misslucyjane]

I think I am indifferent to Dickens. I've read a couple--OMG Bleak House put me to sleep--and liked some, and got put to sleep by others :D. I like literature of the period, though, so I'm fairly certain it's not his style. It's just him.

Discuss Dickens if you wanna! Maybe I'll be inspired to try him again, now that I'm older and wiser.

[skygiants]

Interestingly, I actually have a friend who adored Dickens when she was younger and liked him less as she got older! Everybody is different. :D But I do think he is fun.

[lacewood]

For some reason I can't explain, the only Dickens I've ever read in the original is The Old Curiosity Shop, the one that NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD OF. And that was when I was... maybe 14? So I actually don't remember what I thought anymore! (Though if I didn't bother to read MORE Dickens, I suspect it was more than my 14-year-old self could handle at the time XD)

I should correct this (and also try reading a Dickens that people have ACTUALLY heard of this time, ahaha)

[skygiants]

Okay, I have not actually read The Old Curiosity Shop, but that's the one that created the super cliffhanger fandom craze? People screaming out spoilers off the decks of the ships coming in from England? "LITTLE NELL DIES!" I always remember it because of that story, and how it warms the cockles of my heart to know that the Victorians, too, had the fandom crazy in their own way.

[hafl.livejournal.com]

You cannot imagine my disappointment on finding that A Tale of Two Cities is not available on Librivox. Because really, e-texts make my eyes hurt and I did not spend fourteen years studying English, so that I would end up reading a translated version.

[skygiants]

Aw, tragedy! :( I hope you are able to acquire it at some point.

[schiarire.livejournal.com]

ALWAYS SPONTANEOUS COMBUSTION.

[skygiants]

IT IS THE BEST PLOT DEVICE