skygiants | (no subject)

I've been on a noir kick lately, so in lieu of watching a million films (which I don't have time to do) I read The Dark Side of the Screen, which was one of the first books ever to be written about film noir.

I -- look, I really enjoyed reading this book. So many plot descriptions! So many Wikipedia articles to then go and read! So many screencaps of dramatic chiaroscuro that showed up in hilariously random placements in my poorly-edited library ebook!

HOWEVER I have a hard time actually believing anything Foster Hirsch says about noir because I disagree with him ... so vehemently ... in so many ways ...

I mean I knew I was going to be dubious when he kept describing Double Indemnity as a film about a dominating virago leading a weak-willed man to destruction. Double Indemnity is not a film about nice people, but it's ... not that. Eventually I got so confused that I began to wonder if he'd somehow seen an alternate universe Double Indemnity, starring an alternate universe Barbara Stanwyck. "Barbara Stanwyck is simply not convincing as anything other than a noir spider woman," says Foster Hirsch, of the woman who was THE ROM-COM QUEEN OF 1941. "She has no curves, no flowing lines; everything about her presence is sharp, angular, hard-bitten."

BARBARA STANWYCK, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE WOMAN WITHOUT CURVES:

Then he starts in on Joan Crawford, whose "onscreen hardness mirrored her true personality, CHILD-TORTURER AND CASTRATING WIFE." OK, allcaps mine. But COME ON.

FOSTER HIRSCH: So really the only women in noir are femmes fatales -- "firm-jawed, grim-faced women who regard men with faintly concealed distaste" -- or boring long-suffering wives.
BECCA: But ... Foster Hirsch, I don't have the encylopedic knowledge of noir that you do, but I'm pretty sure that last chapter, you described, IN DETAIL, the plots of at least three famous noirs starring women as the heroic protagonists. Plus, sarcastic Girl Fridays like Effie in The Maltese Falcon. Plus, Lauren Bacall in, like, any noir she was ever in, ever. So, um...?
FOSTER HIRSCH: I don't see your point.

Like ... man, noir is a misogynistic genre, but it takes real effort to come across as more misogynistic than noir! I'm not even angry, I'm just baffled.

(The one leading actress he admits as sympathetic in noir: Gloria Grahame, who has a "timorous, appealing, little-girl quality, thin-lipped, squeaky-voiced, slit-eyed, pumpkin-faced." OKAY THEN.)

However, while Foster Hirsch is wrong a lot of the time, I can't deny that his film descriptions are ... kind of horribly hilarious gold? Pretty much gold.

On the novel Serenade: "Lured back to New York by his former male lover, he re-enters the world of opera as the effete man and the passionate senorita wage battle over his body and soul. In a climactic scene, the senorita thrusts a sword through the hovering homosexual -- a phallic thrust to save her man's phallus for herself."

WOW. I'm ... in awe.

I'm also a big fan of his explanation of the heroine's behavior in Christmas Holiday: "She maintains her obsession even after the discovery that her husband is a murderer; she cannot change her feelings even after it becomes increasingly clear that she has married a lily-lived mama's boy who is also insane."

A LILY-LIVERED MAMA'S BOY WHO IS ALSO INSANE. SIR. SIR, YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL THEORIST OF FILM.

I do, however, continue to be baffled by his description of how Janet Leigh in Touch of Evil is "terrorized in a creepy roadside motel by a brutal lesbian and her gang of thugs." I ... don't remember any lesbians in Touch of Evil? I watched it last week and I think I would have noticed!

Crossposts: http://bookelfe.livejournal.com/387604.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

evewithanapple

. . .

Okay, I have my issues with the cult of Joan Crawford and all, but . . . castrating wife?

From:

skygiants

Like, I am perfectly willing to accept the premise that Joan Crawford probably was not a super nice person, but .... a.) Joan Crawford's real-life personality shouldn't really have that much of a place in your analysis of noir themes ANYWAY, and b.) CASTRATING WIFE???

From:

percysowner

"Barbara Stanwyck is simply not convincing as anything other than a noir spider woman," says Foster Hirsch, of the woman who was THE ROM-COM QUEEN OF 1941. "She has no curves, no flowing lines; everything about her presence is sharp, angular, hard-bitten."

Victoria Barkely was a noir spider woman? Even in the time period to me she's Ball of Fire, The Lady Eve, Sorry Wrong Number, Christmas in Connecticut. This guy never watched any Barbara Stanwyck movies except Double Indemnity did he?

From:

skygiants

To be fair to him, he's at least seen Sorry Wrong Number -- he goes in-depth into how horribly unsympathetic she is and how everyone roots for her murderous husband. (I've not seen it, so I can't give an informed opinion ...)

From:

sovay

he goes in-depth into how horribly unsympathetic she is and how everyone roots for her murderous husband.

Aaaaaaaaaaagh.

From:

ashen_key

...you know, he sounds very...

Tumblr.

From:

skygiants

....you're not wrong.

From:

thirdblindmouse

I like Barbara Stanwyck better as the cold bastard than as a heartwarmer -- but then, this is how I feel about most actors who have ever starred in film noir, James Cagney being the sole exception.

I laughed myself breathless reading "a phallic thrust to save her man's phallus for herself". That's why he gets paid the big bucks, right?

*goes back to hallucinating the existence of Phantom Lady and The Black Angel* (Because it would be very inconvenient for my vid if they turned out not to exist.)

From:

skygiants

I like Barbara Stanwyck both ways! But I find it, uh, let's say oversimplistic -- not to mention really unfair to her talents as an actress -- to declare that she could only conceivably be convincing in the cold bastard vein. Also, he describes her as hatchet-faced, which is just .... factually wrong. I am affronted on behalf of aesthetics.

But this book did for sure convince me I really want to see both Phantom Lady and The Black Angel!

From:

thirdblindmouse

I was lucky enough to see them as a double feature at the Brattle. I also recently saw The Big Heat (whose existence I guess is not in doubt) for the first time at a Harvard Film Archive showing that for once scheduled the old movies on weekends. (Working week nights has put a kink in my old film watching lifestyle. They're playing Woman in the Moon with live music at 7pm tomorrow and I can't go.)

From:

sovay

*goes back to hallucinating the existence of Phantom Lady and The Black Angel* (Because it would be very inconvenient for my vid if they turned out not to exist.)

Apologies for the four-years-late reply, but I had not seen either of these movies when I read your comment originally and I now have—they were a significant part of my serious free-fall into film noir—and I would very much like to see that vid, if you do not mind furnishing a link.

From:

sovay

A LILY-LIVERED MAMA'S BOY WHO IS ALSO INSANE.

To be fair, it's Gene Kelly playing against type, so I've always wanted to see it.

To be anything connected to reality, I think Foster Hirsch had access to a lot of alt-universe noir, but I don't want to see most of it.

P.S. It's not strictly noir, but you should see Night Nurse (1931). It's a pre-Code crime melodrama and features such attractive qualities as a Barbara Stanwyck as a tough-minded trainee nurse, an early, nasty character turn from Clark Gable, and the the delightful change of the romantic lead (played by Ben Lyon) being a Jewish bootlegger named Mortie. William Wellman couldn't have gotten away with the happy ending three years later. He probably couldn't have gotten away with the plot. I love it to pieces.

From:

skygiants

I'm totally curious about the film itself now, because evil Gene Kelly! I have no confidence in Foster Hirsch's description of it because he probably saw the alternate universe version, to judge from surrounding content, but I'm curious for its own sake.

PS: I SHOULD see Night Nurse. I forget whether he described it in the book or whether I saw a plot summary while resentfully Wikipedia-ing Barbara Stanwyck, but either way, I'm 100% sold.

From:

sovay

I forget whether he described it in the book or whether I saw a plot summary while resentfully Wikipedia-ing Barbara Stanwyck, but either way, I'm 100% sold.

It exists on DVD! (Sadly not streamable on Netflix, or I would probably be watching it tonight.) Let me know what evil Gene Kelly looks like if you get the chance!

[edit] Belatedly, I notice that his entire conception of Gloria Grahame is also from another universe. Aside from being physically insulting, it ignores the fact that her best-known roles were as femmes fatales, molls, and sirens. It's like he only ever saw In a Lonely Place (1950) and Oklahoma! (1955) and hated them both.

Edited Date: 2014-08-16 06:08 am (UTC)

From:

skygiants

It turns out you can also get it on DVD from the Boston Library! I think someone should host a pre-code viewing party, she said, hinting broadly.

He does talk about her femmes fatales and molls! He just thinks they're more sympathetic than other people's femmes fatales because ... her face is round ...???

From:

sovay

It turns out you can also get it on DVD from the Boston Library!

Sweet.

He just thinks they're more sympathetic than other people's femmes fatales because ... her face is round ...???

I really hope that more recent scholarship, when evaluating The Dark Side of the Screen, just looks at Hirsch like Pete at Delmar in the movie theater:

From:

percysowner

I don't know if you get Turner Movie Classics, but starting this Friday they are going to run pre-Code movies and Night Nurse is scheduled for this Friday. The entire schedule is here http://tinyurl.com/kyt52kt so if you get TMC, you may be able to see some good stuff.

From:

skygiants

Dangit, I'm not gonna be in a place with a TV this Friday. Thanks for the heads-up, though!

From:

coyotegoth

He means this character- not an outright lesbian; rather, a member of the gang from when Janet Leigh's character is kidnapped.

Edited Date: 2014-08-16 06:52 am (UTC)

From:

coyotegoth

(Also, sorry for HTML issues.)

From:

skygiants

SHORT HAIR = LESBIAN!!!!

I mean I get the implications of coding and subtext but it's not like ... those words are used ... in the description ...

(But to be fair, Foster Hirsch also seems to take it as fact that Joan Crawford in Mildred Pierce spends the whole movie hitting on her daughter. Foster Hirsch's slash goggles appear to be turned up to 15.)

From:

evewithanapple

okay I realize this is like two weeks late but

WHAT

WHAT

WHATTAWHAT

From:

skygiants

I mean. I've never actually seen Mildred Pierce. But I'm pretty sure ... that's not ... ????????

From:

evewithanapple

I HAVE seen Mildred Pierce (wrote an essay for my film noir class on how it exemplifies post-wat anxieties about women in the workforce) and . . . no, there is no underage lesbian incest. Not even obliquely. o.O