skygiants | (no subject)

My local library has just about every Ngaio Marsh book in e-format and they're perfect quick airplane reads, so I've been chugging through the series despite the fact that several of the books have left me with a profound feeling of ambivalence.

Since the first three books I posted about earlier this year, I have now read:

Death in Ecstasy, the one where Alleyn's journalist kind-of-sort-of-sidekick Nigel stumbles on a murder in a weird religious cult; unfortunately I got so distracted by how much Marsh and Alleyn despised the cult's altar boys for their heavily implied queerness that I now cannot remember anything else that happened

Vintage Murder, the one where Alleyn is on vacation in New Zealand when (as detectives on vacation always do) he accidentally trips over a murder in the midst of a theater troupe;

sovay has written about how this book gets 75% of the way through a reasonable representation of a Maori character and then totally upends it, but honestly having just come off Death in Ecstasy I was so grateful that the prose didn't ooze contempt for Dr. Te Pokiha with every word that the two pages of dramatic racism at the end didn't hit me quite as hard. This book is also notable for the second time in six novels that Alleyn gets flirtatious in a sad sort of way with an actress who is a.) a murder suspect and b.) lying to protect an unworthy love interest. Ngaio Marsh has a type.

Artists in Crime, the one where Alleyn meets and investigates various students of Agatha Troy, his series love interest, for a murder at the artist's colony she's hosting. Cue lots of angst and self-loathing from Alleyn, and lots of justified dubiety from Troy. It's hard not to compare this against Sayers' Strong Poison; the setup isn't particularly similar but the pining hits some of the same notes, less deftly. Lots of well-bred pity for the murder victim, an artist's model generally referred to as a 'sensual little animal', which got every one of my hackles up. I think Agatha Troy is probably meant to be in her early thirties but the description of her hair immediately made a vision pop into my head of Zoe Wanamaker as Madame Hooch and I have since clung onto it with great determination, because I enjoy it.

Death in a White Tie, the one where one of Alleyn's friends is murdered in High Society and he takes it very personally; also the one where he and Troy get together, rather too quickly in my humble opinion. That aside, this was my favorite of this batch, both because of the examination of the weirdness of debutante society, and because Alleyn knows and likes many of the people involved, which makes both Alleyn and the rest of the cast come across as significantly more appealing. (Also, there's a one-scene wonder -- an angry and unrepetantly Jewish debutante who hates debutante-ing and wants to be an artist -- who was, miraculously, treated kindly by the narrative.)

I've really been spoiled by Sayers, honestly. Wimsey as a detective makes an effort to like and sympathize with most of the people he meets; everyone down to the murderer in a Sayers novel tends to be treated with a level of empathy that I had not quite been realizing I was relying on until I hit Alleyn. Of course Sayers has the prejudices of her time, but when she looks at a thing closely the social prejudices tend to recede in the face of the humanity of the individuals involved -- take, for example, the gigolos in Have His Carcase.

In the Marsh books, on the other hand, I keep bumping up against Alleyn's lack of respect for anyone who rubs him the wrong way, and then it rubs me the wrong way. But Death in a White Tie was better in this regard and so I have hopes things may improve.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

osprey_archer

One of the things I find really interesting about Marsh as a writer is the way in which some of her later books refute some of the prejudices of the earlier. I don't want to set your heights too high in this regard - in my recollection, almost every book with a main character of color, no matter how sympathetic the portrayal is otherwise, has those two pages of Dramatic Racism at the end. (Is this a unique Marsh tic? Probably other authors have done it, but I don't believe I've seen another author do it so consistently.)

But I came to Alleyn after Josephine Tey's Alan Grant, who judges people based on their eye color and general physiognomy (and he's always right! It's so annoying!), which makes Alleyn look positively open-hearted in comparison. Wimsey to Alleyn, on the other hand, is clearly the wrong way on the empathy ladder.

From:

skygiants

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I'm soldiering on -- I do have a suspicion she's going to improve as things go on and I'm interested in watching her do it, despite a not infrequent desire to throw books at walls.

That sounds fairly infuriating! The only Alan Grant book I've read is the Richard III one and that was a VERY long time ago; also, Alan Grant has very little opportunity to judge Richard III by eye color and physiognomy given givens ....

From:

sovay

The only Alan Grant book I've read is the Richard III one and that was a VERY long time ago; also, Alan Grant has very little opportunity to judge Richard III by eye color and physiognomy given givens ....

It is unobjectionable for me in most of Tey's novels—I don't mind Grant starting to reinvestigate the myth of Richard III because he thinks the man in the portrait has a nice face; he could always have a nice face and still have been a villain—but it's part of the flaming trash fire that is The Franchise Affair (1948) and I cannot recommend it.

From:

raven

I just read Daughter of Time and enjoyed it but kept on thinking "...but, this is a really structurally racist approach to dectectoring", and I'm kind of annoyed that that instinct was right.

From:

sovay

"...but, this is a really structurally racist approach to dectectoring", and I'm kind of annoyed that that instinct was right.

Tey also gets structurally classist about it! It's . . . not good.

From:

osprey_archer

IIRC Alan Grant totally decides Richard can't be a villain because he looks so honorable and trustworthy in his portrait, but that's a very small part of the book and it gets bolstered by lots of actual evidence. I think it's Tey's best book - certainly the least O.o with regard to her physiognomy fixation - although Miss Pym Disposes is also interesting.

From:

allchildren

I came here to say similar things based on my experience with Tey. The one I read besides Richard III was the first Alan Grant, where a man is stabbed in the back by a stiletto, which Grant decides is not an Englishman's crime and henceforth goes around looking for a "Levantine" for his perp. Only when I read other reviews did I discover that this was some later editor's attempt at cleaning up Tey's original word choice, "dago." Nice. Also, Nice Guy plot to murder a woman who rejected him: totally justified. How I missed Sayers when that came out. (review with spoilers: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/243400.The_Man_in_the_Queue?from_search=true)

I vaguely wondered if Marsh would be a better Sayers replacement than Tey, but I'm not feeling particularly enticed by your reviews, tbh. Also, there are still a couple Wimseys I've not yet read, having bounced hard off the of whatever is happening at the beginning of Five Red Herrings, warned off of Unnatural Death by Izzy, and not yet looked at the short stories.

From:

sovay

and henceforth goes around looking for a "Levantine" for his perp. Only when I read other reviews did I discover that this was some later editor's attempt at cleaning up Tey's original word choice, "dago." Nice.

I also read the book without knowing the anti-Semitism had been a swap-in, and felt rather bitten by it. It is true that I would have felt less personally bitten by Tey's original stereotype choice, but I still wouldn't have approved.

I remember really, really liking Tey's To Love and Be Wise for spoilery reasons, but I can't swear to anything about the other characters in the book.

From:

skygiants

oh my GOD, TEY!!!!

I mean I may yet run into better Marshes -- Death in a White Tie is fairly reasonably good -- but I do spent a fair bit of time resenting Marsh for not being Sayers, which sort of defeats the purpose of the exercise.

I actually think Unnatural Death is worth the read even with the well-intentioned racism and the evil lesbian because of the copious amounts of Miss Climpson and Peter's gratifying sense of responsibility, but anyone's MMV. (Also the non-evil backstory lesbians mitigate somewhat.) Five Red Herrings I have tried multiple times to find virtue in and failed every time.

Edited Date: 2018-12-28 01:07 am (UTC)

From:

sandrylene

Wow, I'd never really clued into why I like Wimsey, thank you for posting this! I feel so frequently like you're just so much more good at analytical stuff in literature than I am, so it's a joy to read your thoughts. Mine are usually "I don't know whY I like it". :P

That said, I'm not sure I'm going to read any of this author any time soon.

From:

skygiants

Aw, thank you! That's very kind; I don't know that I'm particularly good at analysis, but I do find that I cannot break myself of the English-major habit of attempting it... (sometimes to the chagrin of my fellows who would just like to be left to have enjoyed a book in peace.)

From:

sovay

(sometimes to the chagrin of my fellows who would just like to be left to have enjoyed a book in peace.)

It's a feature rather than a bug as far as I'm concerned.

From:

sovay

but honestly having just come off Death in Ecstasy I was so grateful that the prose didn't ooze contempt for Dr. Te Pokiha with every word that the two pages of dramatic racism at the end didn't hit me quite as hard.

Well, it makes me glad I missed Death in Ecstasy.

(Also, there's a one-scene wonder -- an angry and unrepetantly Jewish debutante who hates debutante-ing and wants to be an artist -- who was, miraculously, treated kindly by the narrative.)

(Hooray! What's her name and is there fic about her?)

From:

skygiants

THERE ISN'T AND THERE SHOULD BE. Her name is Rose Birnbaum and Alleyn tosses off a suggestion that perhaps in future she might study with Troy, but as far as I can tell from the Internet she does not appear in any future books -- which given Marsh's spotty track record is probably just as well.

From:

sovay

THERE ISN'T AND THERE SHOULD BE.

I OFFICIALLY PLACE A REQUEST.

From:

antisoppist

THERE SHOULD BE. She is excellent and one of the reasons I keep rereading it, the other being the most unconvincing love scene followed by sudden capitulation in Golden Age crime fiction. One day I will write fic about that.

I like Final Curtain and A Clutch of Constables for being mostly Troy detecting things on her own.

Have you read Nicholas Blake? Thou Shell of Death introduces Georgia, who is an intrepid explorer.

From:

raven

I have just read four detective novels in a series, and basically hated all of them for their cretinous racism and misogyny, and now I ask you, my friend, why did I do this. Why are we both reading whole series of detective books that we hate.

From:

skygiants

I DON'T KNOOOOW, They're short and they're there and they're so EASY to read and hate on airplanes. ;__; (Which series have you been reading?)

From:

raven

the Fethering mysteries by Simon Brett, which have a great premise: hard-headed ex-civil servant and her hippy-dippy neighbour team up to solve crime in a small English village. It's just, they're either ludicrously racist OR the mystery solution is complete pants OR both.

From:

sovay

Apologies for the multiple comments, but I have an antidote recommendation.

From:

skygiants

BLESS YOU, I will be Gutenberg-ing these for my next long plane trip!

From:

sovay

BLESS YOU, I will be Gutenberg-ing these for my next long plane trip!

Hooray!

From:

pseudo_tsuga

Uh wow, that passage on the Māori doctor is SO close but then it gets to the haka and it all goes downhill. Sadly it's not too different what you read in the comments to a lot of newspaper articles still