(no subject)

[skygiants]

I waxed rhapsodic a few months ago when talking about Tasha Suri's Empire of Sand about what I find appealing in marriage of convenience/obligate travel companions/trapped-in-an-inn/etc.-type stories so I probably don't need to do it again when talking about Everina Maxwell's Winter's Orbit, but I will nonetheless submit it as supporting evidence to my thesis that it is Simply Pleasant to watch people who are circumstantially required to spend significant amounts of time together discover things to like in each other. A very enjoyable experience!

I feel like at least 50% of my dwlist has read Winter's Orbit already in some form or another, but for those who are unfamiliar, the premise: we're In Space, In Empire, and just-royal-enough-to-be-prime-tabloid-fodder Prince Kiem is being rushed into a marriage of convenience with the very recently widowed Count Jainan in order to uphold an alliance with the mildly rebellious subsidiary planet from which Jainan hails.

Kiem and Jainan are both kind, ethical, well-intentioned people who go about being kind, ethical, and well-intentioned in very different ways and with very different baseline assumptions, resulting in a major communications gap from the first day of their deeply awkward marriage. Additionally, there are two big shadows hanging over them: the galactic-scale one is that Jainan's first husband died under very suspicious circumstances, and the personal-scale one is that Jainan's first husband was abusive, a fact which becomes clear to the reader very early on but is definitely not clear to Kiem. The first thing is more important to the plot, but the second thing is more important to the book.

I devoured this in about a day and a half; it's extremely easy and comforting read, not only for Romance reasons but also on the related but distinct axis of "individual who has been constrained and isolated in a bad situation gains trust, self-confidence, and support network." A bit like The Goblin Emperor in this regard, but felt more earned to me than The Goblin Emperor did tbh -- personal stakes better calibrated -- and I'm glad I bought it in hard copy because I suspect I will want to have it on hand for stressful times.

I also very much enjoyed the supporting characters, including Kiem's suspiciously competent personal assistant, Jainan's teen radical junior kinswoman, and the charmingly absent-minded professor who may or may not be a red herring.

Comments

[aquamirage]

"individual who has been constrained and isolated in a bad situation gains trust, self-confidence, and support network."

oooooh

[skygiants]

I feel like there must be a proper term for this kind of plot? When a character is coming out of trauma and sort of very carefully testing ground, and you get to see them discover things that are stable enough to rebuild upon -- it's so good when done well.

[aquamirage]

there has to be, i'll look into it

[lokifan]

Helenish's Neville/Draco, "Theft of Assets, Destruction of Property" is an A+ example of this. I once mentioned it at a con and about four other people chimed in with the title at once, which I think says a lot. It's a very fanficcy plot, I think, I see it a lot more there.

[genarti]

As you know, I did read this in a prior form, and also as you know, I am very excited to read it in its expanded published form! I thoroughly enjoyed the earlier version, but also have forgotten a lot of what happens in the middle parts, so I look forward to not remembering whether or not a given plot point existed before.

[skygiants]

I think you will enjoy it very much when you get around to it! And that is another reason I am glad we own a copy. :D

[chestnut_pod]

It is soothing even to read about other people being soothed by this book!

[skygiants]

Vicarious soothing! Enjoyment by proxy. :D

[shadaras]

At some point I really need to read Winter's Orbit (instead of running purely on memories of The Course of Honor)! I pre-ordered a copy and it's been sitting on the table waiting for me to be in a headspace to read literally any physical book instead of being completely hyperfixated on cnovels!

I'm glad it's so fun, I look forward to when I can read it myself. :)

[skygiants]

lol, I've definitely been there. It will still be there when the cnovel hyperfixation diminishes a little!

[vass]

my thesis that it is Simply Pleasant to watch people who are circumstantially required to spend significant amounts of time together discover things to like in each other. A very enjoyable experience!

I think that's one element of what's good about this trope, but there's another factor that's at least as major for me...

Kiem and Jainan are both kind, ethical, well-intentioned people who go about being kind, ethical, and well-intentioned

...there it is. I like when characters in a marriage of convenience treat each other well out of decency and ethics and making the best of a situation not of their choosing, and it pays off for them with happiness. It's so satisfying.

[skygiants]

Yeah, I think that's true! It's interesting, I like different things in different iterations of the trope -- I enjoy seeing people who are rude or dislike each other learn to appreciate each other in forced-proximity stuff like An Adventure or A Dangerous Situation, but marriage of convenience stuff I would much rather kindness and respect and good intentions (probably because the stakes are so differently fraught.)

[lirazel]

it is Simply Pleasant to watch people who are circumstantially required to spend significant amounts of time together discover things to like in each other. A very enjoyable experience!

It's a good thesis and I concur!

but also on the related but distinct axis of "individual who has been constrained and isolated in a bad situation gains trust, self-confidence, and support network." A bit like The Goblin Emperor in this regard, but felt more earned to me than The Goblin Emperor did tbh

I agree about this. I like Goblin Emperor, but I felt like the gaining of all those things happened too easily?

It's a fun read! The second half isn't as fun as the first half which is just full of things that make me lose my mind in the best way, but it's still fun all the way through.

[skygiants]

Yeah, I understand why Goblin Emperor is and was so popular and I absolutely enjoyed reading it, but every time Maia was like "...but why though" to people pledging him their undying loyalty after three conversations I also was like "...but why though."

The "trek through the snowy wilderness together" is so good!

[lirazel]

very time Maia was like "...but why though" to people pledging him their undying loyalty after three conversations I also was like "...but why though."

I KNOW. I could buy one or two people reaching out to him from the goodness of their hearts, but it just kept happening!

[larryhammer]

Sounds yum.

[skygiants]

A good descriptor!

[osprey_archer]

That sounds like so much fun! I have put it on hold at my library... and so has everyone else apparently, so it may be some time before I get a crack at it.

[skygiants]

I'm glad to hear it's doing well enough to be In Demand, but I hope the library gods smile upon you soon! (Though I know you've got no shortage of things on your list.)

[osprey_archer]

The library gods smiled on me yesterday and I have done essentially nothing since but read Winter's Orbit! (With an extremely reluctant pause for sleep.) I thought that the political plot would have been improved by lower stakes - the ending in particular felt rushed - but I LOVED the main relationship, and Jainan slowly getting back on his feet now that he's no longer being emotionally pummeled on a daily basis, and also the flashbacks to said emotional pummeling because I just love whump, especially if that whump is a Bad Boyfriend. (Or Bad Husband in this case.)

Completely unrelated, but I feel you will really feel my pain on this: the local movie theater is doing a showing of Newsies and I'm not going to be fully vaccinated in time to go and AAAAARGH.

[skygiants]

Yeah, I agree on the ending being a bit rushed -- I'm glad to have not read the lower-stakes version on AO3 tbh because I'm happy to have the excuse not to compare/contrast! -- but Jainan's slow recovery arc is SO good!

ALSO I FEEL YOUR PAIN SO DEEPLY, oh no, that's wildly unfair! Hopefully it will occur again at some point? and if not I think you are entitled to have a make-up Newsies watching party in the future times.

[osprey_archer]

I think there is a belief in publishing (and even more in movie making) that Higher Stakes Are Automatically Better, and no, that's really not true! Sometimes high stakes are just an albatross around a story's neck. The best stakes are the stakes that are correctly proportioned for the story that they're in.

Also loved the way that things kept going mildly wrong and Kiem's like "Something has gone mildly wrong! Oh well, moving along," and meanwhile Jainan is like, "This quarterstaff disaster must never be repeated." It's such a good form of misunderstanding! The participants don't even realize that their understandings of these events are so wildly divergent, because they never talk about it (Kiem because he thinks most of the mishaps are too small to be worth talking about, Jainan because if they talk about it obviously Kiem will be forced to express his Deep Disappointment in Jainan).

[starlady]

I enjoyed it on AO3 and I thought the expansion of the plot served it very well. Definitely looking forward to reading the author's next book too.

[skygiants]

Me too, I'm very excited to see what comes next!

[melita66]

I hadn't read The Course of Honour (although someone graciously sent me a copy) but I devoured Winter's Orbit. So tropey! I'd like to add that there's lots of small-scale competence porn. Kiem believes he's not worth much. Things that blow up on social media as bad things really were done for *reasons*.

Kiem talking to everyone around leads to connections and information that's useful. Uh, so it's not just Jainan learning self-confidence and overcoming his past.

I've been expecting more fanfic but it's still in low double digits. Unfortunately, I've never had a hankering to write any kind of fic. (same like I wish for more Boyfriend Material fanfic!)

[skygiants]

I'd also not got around to reading The Course of Honor when it was up, and I think I'm glad of that now tbh -- no need to play comparison games! Definitely agree on the small-scale competence porn and the enjoyment of the way Kiem plays the media and utilizes his strengths.

I'm a bit surprised there's not more fic yet but I expect there will be a bunch come Yuletide!

[shezan]

I LOVED The Course of Honour — and I'm afraid I hate this published version. Well, not exactly hate, since there's enough of the original material left in it to make you aware of what horrors were perpetrated on the text. I LOATHE what Tor's editors did to it. CoH was a quirky atmospheric whodunit with plenty of small details that added depth and complexity, underlaid by a sharp intelligence. Winter's Orbit is a formulaic political thriller in which you care little about the outcome and nothing about any of the supporting cast. Even Jainan, Kiem, Bel, Aren, Vaile, and more, have been sandpapered to frustrating characterlessness. The editor added clichés, a stale political-plot-for-dummies, erased all the subtle nuances of character and class, introduced stupid woke labelling (yes, in the original we got that genders were fluid, we didn't need to have people wear wood or metal accessories to signal it loudly) and erased some brilliant characters. The original intrigue was a very believable tale of ordinary corruption, with motivations and background; the political plot is a McGuffin with no hinterland or explanations. The resolution, in which massive political change and transfer of resources is suddenly approved with nary a word by the Emperor, has the political depth of a Meghan Markle Instagram post.

Characters like Chief Agent Rakal, an engagingly complex personality, are reduced to a couple of short scenes; their deputy disappears completely. We see next to nothing of Press Officer Hren Halesar who was a brilliant take on the Blair cabinet's Alastair Campbell. General Fenrik becomes a stock character villain instead of an old-style martinet with complex influence and power. Professor Audel, who was such a recognisable academic type, is changed to become a cliché secondary character only tasked to further the plot, losing her personality and realism. Nelen has been edited out completely. We lose dozens of small world building details, from the ski trip to the disgruntled aide, the corridors of the university, the press pack, prince Kiem's personality quirks and examples of his personal charm. (What kind of a rewrite kills off scenes that make the protagonist come alive???) The language has been SIMPLIFIED, dear lord. The ski expedition has been cut. I could go on and on, because this is infuriating. All of this has been brutally hacked by an obviously American editor, let loose on a clever and imaginative work, to produce a kind of Marvel comic from an Evelyn Waugh novel.

There's an acknowledgement and thanks page from the author at the end of the book. It says nice things about Avoliot's supports and fan readers, and goes on to praise Tor, but it would be difficult not to for one's first book, wouldn't it?

[skygiants]

I never read The Course of Honor in its original form, so I'm afraid the points of comparison are lost on me! I'm just as glad honestly to have been able to enjoy it as is without having to compare/contrast.

[aamcnamara]

I liked the fic version and found it satisfying in a ficcy way; I enjoyed the book version and found it Extremely Bujold. Which isn't a bad thing--but I think I felt the fic version earned its emotional conclusion more solidly, probably due to concentrating on that and having lower political stakes (the intergalactic government was way offstage, iirc). By the end I thought the conversion had gone better than I did midway through, though, and I'll certainly rec the book in a Bujold, But Gay way!

[skygiants]

It's interesting to me tbh how much romantic SFF ends up falling into the pattern of Bujold -- I mean, you remember how much I sort of unconsciously put into my worldbuilding of LBAL without even realizing what I was doing. I'm trying to think of anything else that casts as large a shadow on this kind of book and drawing a blank.