skygiants: Princess Tutu, facing darkness with a green light in the distance (Default)
[personal profile] skygiants
There is a subgenre that I wouldn't have thought to describe as a whole subgenre until I read Kerstin Hall's Asunder and immediately thought 'like Deeplight!' and also 'like those Max Gladstone books!' and also come to think of it 'like The Archive Undying' -- second-world fantasy set in a society that's been shaped around gods, and now those gods are [quite recently] dead or gone or murdered, and everyone is trying to reckon with the shape of the world that they left behind. I like this sort of subgenre quite a bit because it lends itself to interesting complexity; people can have all kinds of different messy feelings about the divine, and about their destruction, and about whatever new powers have come in to fill the void they left, and it's rarely as straightforward as 'it was better before' or 'it's better now.'

Asunder is kind of a weird book and it passes through a lot as it goes; I'm not sure it structurally holds together, and the ending feels in some sense incomplete, but it leaves its world messy in ways I really enjoyed. Our Heroine Karys' country used to be under the charge of a set of variously powerful, variously petty localized divinities, who created much of the important infrastructure, and who all died about twenty years ago, resulting in a major conquest. People Feel Various Ways About This. Now Karys has contracted herself to a different kind of powerful and terrible [divinity?/cosmic horror?] in exchange for the ability to talk to the dead, which serves as her main source of income. The job on which we meet her, however, is immediately in the process of going horribly wrong, as the shipwreck she was investigating turns out to have been caused by a weird monster that traps her in a cavern, where she finds a gravely injured survivor, a young diplomat from a foreign empire. Then in the process of trying to help him escape with her she accidentally traps this whole diplomat inside her subconscious, and the rest of the book is a long strange road trip for the purpose of Getting Him Out Of There, complicated by:

- the various debts of obligation and favor that Karys is obliged to incur to sneak through and past various borders
- the scholar who decides to come along for the ride because she thinks Karys is not only cute but also the most interesting potential research subject she's ever met
- the small unhappy town that Karys ran away from as a child, and her childhood friend/ex-girlfriend?? who has some kind of connection to Karys' childhood god/ex-god??
- Karys' powerful and terrible patron, who has informed her that she is destined to be summoned to him soon for a Great Honor, which does not seem like a good thing at all at all
- the fact that everyone keeps telling Karys and her new passenger Ferain that if they don't Fix This Immediately one of them is inevitably going to have to kill the other for survival, which does not help with building the trust and cooperation that they need to develop in order to keep escaping from
- the weird monsters that are still persistently trying to chase them down

And meanwhile we, the readers, are picking up slowly on all the complicated past between these countries and these gods as we pass through it, and also on what's going on with Karys herself. I love that there's all this buildup around Why Karys Sold Her Soul, and then it boils down to a straightforward 'I ran away from a bad home and I was very hungry and I made a bad decision to get a job.' She's not destined in any way. She is just one little person, and that makes the Big Things going on all around her feel bigger and weirder and more dangerous.

Date: 2025-04-13 02:20 pm (UTC)
sophia_sol: photo of a 19th century ivory carving of a fat bird (Default)
From: [personal profile] sophia_sol
ok this sounds VERY interesting! it's too bad about the messy structure and unsatisfying ending...

Date: 2025-04-13 02:57 pm (UTC)
raven: [hello my name is] and a silhouette image of a raven (Default)
From: [personal profile] raven
Huh, that is a genre, isn't it! T Kingfisher's Saint of Steel, on a smaller scale, and Lagoonfire are others.

Date: 2025-04-16 12:59 am (UTC)
katarik: DC Comics: Major Slade Wilson and Captain Adeline Kane, text but I can make you better (Default)
From: [personal profile] katarik
GODKILLER, as well, which my book club just finished reading. The worldbuilding was my favorite part of the book -- I haven't decided yet if I'm going to pick up the rest of the trilogy.

Date: 2025-04-13 03:12 pm (UTC)
brownbetty: (Default)
From: [personal profile] brownbetty
I've enjoyed Hall's stuff, but I haven't read Asunder yet!

Date: 2025-04-13 04:13 pm (UTC)
naraht: Moonrise over Earth (Default)
From: [personal profile] naraht
Interesting! I just finished reading Robert Jackson Bennett's "City of Stairs" which fits into the very same genre.

Date: 2025-04-13 06:28 pm (UTC)
landofnowhere: (Default)
From: [personal profile] landofnowhere
I was coming here to mention the Divine Cities books, but you and [personal profile] musesfool beat me to it! I also recommend, although they are Robert Jackson Bennett's first novels and he has gotten much better at LGBT representation in his books since.

Date: 2025-04-13 07:23 pm (UTC)
aella_irene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aella_irene
Ditto!

Date: 2025-04-13 08:22 pm (UTC)
sovay: (Viktor & Mordecai)
From: [personal profile] sovay
I also recommend, although they are Robert Jackson Bennett's first novels and he has gotten much better at LGBT representation in his books since.

I am glad to hear it, since that particular issue bounced me so vehemently out of City of Stairs that I never actually went back to another of his books.

Date: 2025-04-14 11:23 am (UTC)
mrissa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrissa
Oh, were they his first? That explains a lot. I had read things that he published before them, and while the previous standalone dark fantasy/horror novels were not really my favorite genre, they seemed more accomplished than that trilogy in some ways.

Date: 2025-04-14 01:39 pm (UTC)
landofnowhere: (Default)
From: [personal profile] landofnowhere
Oh, I wasn't really aware of his non-secondary world fiction (I vaguely knew he had written some, but didn't have any interest or know publication dates), so I don't actually know what was written first.

Date: 2025-04-14 01:51 pm (UTC)
mrissa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrissa
Oh, okay, I wonder if it was the switch to secondary worldbuilding that was the leap then.

Date: 2025-04-13 04:24 pm (UTC)
musesfool: River from objects in space (it doesn't mean what you think)
From: [personal profile] musesfool
Oh that sounds interesting. I am very into this genre of "recently dead gods: how do we deal with this?" Robert Bennett Jackson's Divine Cities trilogy also fits right into it.

Date: 2025-04-16 11:38 pm (UTC)
musesfool: korra, looking hopeful (all that heaven will allow)
From: [personal profile] musesfool
I've liked everything I've read of his so far - the Divine Cities trilogy, the 2 (so far) mysteries set in a really fascinating secondary world, and the first book of his Foundryside trilogy (I need to finish those). His world-building is really intriguing to me.

Date: 2025-04-14 04:28 am (UTC)
sovay: (Rotwang)
From: [personal profile] sovay
second-world fantasy set in a society that's been shaped around gods, and now those gods are [quite recently] dead or gone or murdered, and everyone is trying to reckon with the shape of the world that they left behind.

I wonder how many of these authors encountered The Belgariad at some impressionable age and took issue with its god-murder with zero interesting consequences whatsoever.
Edited Date: 2025-04-14 04:28 am (UTC)

Date: 2025-04-16 11:30 pm (UTC)
sovay: (Otachi: Pacific Rim)
From: [personal profile] sovay
The relationship with the divine in Edding's work is so aggressively un-weird and un-numinous!

I have no plans ever to re-read those books and it bugs me to this day!

Date: 2025-04-14 08:01 am (UTC)
mneme: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mneme
I feel weird sorting Gladstone's work here, since (some) of his gods are definately still present and even active. But yeah, having the surviving gods still be around, but not -ascendant- (in comparison with law and accounting) gives the work a similar feel.

Date: 2025-04-14 06:34 pm (UTC)
lirazel: Lead couple from Healer ([tv] lois and clark)
From: [personal profile] lirazel
second-world fantasy set in a society that's been shaped around gods, and now those gods are [quite recently] dead or gone or murdered, and everyone is trying to reckon with the shape of the world that they left behind.

Well, I have several more titles to add to my to-read list, then! Because those sound up my alley and I did like Deeplight!

This one in particular sounds interesting and worth engaging with, even if I will not hold my breath about everything coming together in the end. Thanks!

Date: 2025-04-15 12:41 am (UTC)
chestnut_pod: A close-up photograph of my auburn hair in a French braid (Default)
From: [personal profile] chestnut_pod
That is a fun subgenre! I feel like Jemisin's Inheritance Trilogy even fits that bill, sort of.

Date: 2025-04-15 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] vera_l
Ooh, I like this subgenre too, now that you've identified it. Adding to the pile: Adrian Tchaikovsky's City of Last Chances (etc.) fits in the same way that Gladstone's Craft books do, I think. The world isn't down to zero gods, but there's significantly less net goddage around than there used to be, and the changes strongly shape things.

Date: 2025-04-20 02:34 pm (UTC)
obopolsk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] obopolsk
I like this sort of subgenre quite a bit because it lends itself to interesting complexity; people can have all kinds of different messy feelings about the divine, and about their destruction, and about whatever new powers have come in to fill the void they left, and it's rarely as straightforward as 'it was better before' or 'it's better now.'

This sounds a lot like the way I feel about first contact books starring priests. (I'm not sure if there are enough of them to count as a subgenre, but it's the perfect the combination of elements to allow for messy feelings about the divine and I am here for it.)

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