(no subject)

[skygiants]

My coworker just walked up to me and asked, "Have you ever heard of this guy Neil - something . . . he's a writer . . ."
Becca: ". . . . Gaiman?"
Coworker: "Yeah, that's it! Tell me about him."
Becca: "Well, he's probably most famous for these graphic novels -"
Coworker: "Uh, what's a graphic novel?"

Coworker is a very nice guy, but I don't think I'm in geekland any more. :( Also, I don't know whether to be amused or chagrined (or both!) that after two weeks of work I am already pegged as That Girl Who Knows Lots About Books, Also The Walking Thesaurus. And I haven't even taken out any books at work hardly at all! I save that until I'm outside in the park for lunch break. It must just be an aura or something.

However, while I'm on the topic of graphic novels, and of being That Girl Who Talks About Books A Lot . . . I just finished reading Watchmen for the first time, and . . . wow. My thoughts on it are still sort of disconnected, so this may not be terribly coherent. I went into it knowing nothing about it but that it was Landmark and involved superheroes, and coming out, I can definitely see all that anyone ever says about it is that it's groundbreaking - there are about fifty different twists, subversions, and commentaries on the trope in there, any one of which would have made a good story in and of itself (and those are just the major plotlines). Combined, I was kind of continually in awe at the sheer density of story. There were some things I didn't like as much, but it's an - I think the right word for me is just impressive - work. I did see Ozymandias As Mastermind telegraphed about twenty miles away, but even so, the way the rug is pulled out from under you at the end is I think still incredibly effective. (Which did not stop me from getting irritated at the casual murder of the nameless refugee minions, I just feel the need to mention.) I also thought it was interesting that all the masked heroes had names that suggested either German or Eastern European ancestry. Obviously this was deliberate, and I mean, I get the point, but . . . all? - also, in an attempt to interject some levity, the author of Tales of the Black Freighter is a total self-insert, yes? I remember reading somewhere, by the way, that the full DVD of the film version is going to include an animated version of that story, and my mind boggles at this.

I am also going to put in a mention of another graphic novel series I read a while ago and haven't written up yet. When rushin_doll was visiting, we traded texts; I gave him The Homeward Bounders to read, and he gave me the entirety of the published Red Star saga to date. I will admit, the first book didn't actually grab me that much - the artwork was beautiful, but the epic tragedy focus was a little too much for my own taste. But I went on to the second, once the focus shifts to pseudo-magic-USSR's battle with one of its would-be-splinter nations, and there I, too, became a Red Star convert. What this series does really well, I think, is pull off an epic storyline - good vs. evil, in very absolute terms (which is kind of the utter opposite of Watchmen) - and make it still feel very close and individual and personal.

. . . unfortunately, I can't afford to buy issue-by-issue, so I'll be waiting until the next collected graphic novel comes out to find out what happens next. But I'm excited for then! . . . however many decades in the future that ends up being.

Comments

[rushin-doll.livejournal.com]

In the email I got yesterday (DID I MENTION EMAIL!? ZOMG!), Christian said he'd been in a meeting about the next TPB. This leads me to suspect that the next one will be the three published books of "The Sword of Lies" arc, which should be about 130 pages or so, which isn't bad for a TPB. It further leads me to suspect the next issue released (probably next year at ComicCon if they keep up their current schedule) will be the start of a new, and possibly final arc.

We'll see,
Ana

[skygiants]

(ZOMG EMAIL THAT'S SO COOL!)

That is not bad at all for a TPB! And next year is . . . not so bad for the release schedule. Seriously, from everything I've heard, I was expecting, like, 2010. So!

[rushin-doll.livejournal.com]

Hey! They've managed three releases in a row on the "once per year" schedule so far!

Still not fast enough for me,
Ana

[skygiants]

At least that's sort of reliable . . . ish? Hey, it's faster than books in a series usually get published. Of course, those tend to be four hundred pages instead of forty, BUT STILL.

[sophistry]

[SPOILER]

"I did it thirty-five minutes ago," and the reaction shot of Nite Owl and Rorschach might just be my favourite two panels in all of comic-dom. And considering that this is freaking WATCHMEN, where every panel is a carefully thought-out web of visual references and echoes and AWESOMENESS, that is saying something. Amazing.

[skygiants]

Um, YES. I had just begun to eye Ozymandias' speechifying, AND THEN. Man. (I already know I am going to read it again fairly soon to see what I missed. Not right away. But someday soon.)

Also HAHAHA I was reading the book and I saw a panel and I was like "I recognize that from somewhere and I DON'T KNOW WHY." And now I am looking at your icon and going "OH HEY!"

[ristrettoette.livejournal.com]

People tend to be a tad dismissive now towards Watchmen, saying that it was groundbreaking but now the postmodern superhero saga has been done so much that it isn't as compelling as it was. I disagree just because I think Watchmen's serious, valid ethical questions are rarely repeated. The "postmodern superhero" thing tends to be more about "omg it's dark and gritty! but it's comix!" or "antihero!" or "gimmicks showing we r n touch with the absurdity inherent in the system!" and less about buckling down and dealing with the implications of a genre founded on the assumption that vigilantism is necessary and right. Which is the issue that Watchmen raises but-- rightly, I think-- doesn't fully resolve.

And I think the density you mentioned is one of the reasons it works so well-- in order to deal with the question of whether certain people have the right to serve as vigilantes, you have to establish those people as people, not as-- pun sort of intended-- masks. You have to demonstrate their troubling humanity. The Comedian is one of very, very few characters (the other that comes to mind is from Friday Night Lights, oddly) I can think of who really, complexly resists judgment as good or evil. I never feel as though I'm "supposed" to think of him as good or evil or an antihero. He is a human being who does very bad and very good things. And to me that's incredibly effective, because it's like: is this a person I want passing judgment on society?

I will stop now before I skid into another essay.

[jothra]

I definitely agree with you. Watchmen ushered in a new era of 'I r dark and gritty superhero comic'. That gets really annoying after a while, so it took me a long time before deciding to read it. It's still harder for someone who has no memory of the Cold War to relate to some aspects of the storyline, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss it.

I don't know that I could say that I enjoyed reading it the first time, but I could see its importance as a social comment and overall work.

And the ending made me mad and made me think, so I figure Mr. Moore got what he wanted out of me...

[skygiants]

Yeah, I don't think 'enjoyment' is really the right word for reactions to this book, and I don't think it's supposed to be - although I did find myself completely absorbed in it, which definitely does not always happen with fiction. As a world, I think, it's so complex that it sucks you in (or at least, it did so for me.)

[skygiants]

No no no, essays good! I want essays! I am still sorting through my own thoughts on this, so I really like reading other people's.

And yes - the Comedian and Rorschach both, to me, fill this role. Rorschach may see the world in black and white, but he is not at all black and white himself - and even to say that he sees things in a Manichean fashion is I think an Ozymandian overstatement, because he is perfectly capable of seeing the gray when he chooses to.

I think this, the vigilantism of psychologically complex and troubling people, is one of the main themes of the book and would make it in and of itself; the Dr. Manhattan plot, on the other hand, is almost an entirely different question, the really separating line of the truly posthuman and superheroic, and that could make a book in and of itself too. I almost feel that the real stroke of genius is managing to believably combine the two.

[wakeupnew]

I always tell people to push on through the first TPB; it's the sort of thing that you appreciate more (or I did, anyway!) after you've read the next couple of books and have gotten to know the characters better. I totally almost quit reading halfway through Kar Dathra's Gate; I have two friends who did.

As for not being able to afford it issue-to-issue -- well. There is always the internet? XD And anyway, at the rate they're going at, it's not likely to be more than $5 a year. *wry*

I am so glad that the black freighter isn't going to be in the Watchmen movie; I completely hated it and skipped it when I read the book. >_>

[jothra]

I skipped it too. I know it was a metaphor...but I am not really into incredibly involved extended metaphors.

[skygiants]

Yeah, it is a lot more resonant, I think, once you have gotten to know Maya especially as a much more complete character than The Grieving Widow. Because that's mostly what you get of her, in the TPB. And none of the other characters get much of a chance to come into their own, there.

Aheh. Yes, there is that. Or stealing it from Ana, now that we're in the same city and I know where he lives. Um.

I . . . yeah. I didn't completely hate it, but my biggest problem with it was that in the context of the story it was really anvilicious. "Do you see the parallels? Do you see them? LOOK THERE THEY ARE!"

[batyatoon]

Okay, now that you have read it:

Hiro's "YATTA!"

Deliberate echo of [spoiler]Ozymandias's "I DID IT!" Y/N?

[skygiants]

O.O

I do not know if deliberate, seeing as Kring disclaims all knowledge of comic-book-land, but damn creepy echo, sure!