(no subject)

[skygiants]

Last time she was in town, genarti lent me Elizabeth Moon's Remnant Population because she knows I have a have a fondness for that extremely rare quantity in sf/f: grumpy elderly female protagonists (*cough*SophieHatter*cough*). If I had been smart, I would have held off on finishing it until after Dragon*Con so as to lure her back down here to get it back! But I was not smart, and so instead I finished it yesterday.

I admired this book quite a lot. It's slow, thoughtful and original; although the plot involves first contact with aliens and planetary colonization, it's more of a character study than anything else. Ofelia is well into her seventies or eighties, and has worked and raised children and listened to others and had very little time to herself all her life - so when the company decides that her colony has failed and everyone needs to be evacuated from the planet, she maneuvers herself into getting left behind, the only human being in what's left of the colony. And she loves it. When sentient inhabitants of the planet show up, her first reaction is extreme irritation along the lines of 'why do I have to deal with people again?' The development of her character in solitude, and then, again, with the new species, drives most of the book, with other characters really only showing up at the end.

This meant that the biggest flaw of the book (in my opinion) only really had time to bother me at the beginning and at the end - and it's not really a huge flaw, but it is something that I've become perhaps overly sensitive to in literature. I am not really sure what to call it except Irritating People Syndrome. In books afflicted with Irritating People Syndrome, anyone the main character finds annoying (unless they're annoying in obviously pre-romantic tension ways) is almost guaranteed to (in the best-case scenario) continue being annoying with absolutely no positive character traits, and (in the worst-case scenario) turn out to be downright evil. I think I first started noticing Irritating People Syndrome in Mercedes Lackey novels, but Elizabeth Moon suffers from it to a certain extent too. Because I am ornery sometimes, when a character gets classed as an Irritating Person, my hackles go up and I immediately start looking for ways to sympathize with them. The son and daughter-in-law that Ofelia decides she doesn't care about spending the rest of her life with are both Irritating People, which meant that I had a hard time sympathizing with Ofelia at first because she was judging them so harshly. I don't mind judgmentalness at all in main characters as long as they get to be wrong - in fact, I love when main characters dislike each other, it gives me warm fuzzies - but when the author validates that judgmentalness, I get twitchy.

And now I am curious - is this just a personal pet peeve of mine, or does anyone else notice Irritating People Syndrome? Or do you notice but it doesn't bother you?

Comments

[jothra]

Honestly I spot it in fanfiction the most. When someone has obviously sat down to write about a person or group of people who annoy the author personally, and then make them the antagonist.

And the heroes are Always Right.

Mercedes Lackey is definitely another one, but hers often seem to be less of a plot point and more of a 'see how hard the main character's life is' thing.

[skygiants]

Yes, it's a big thing in fanfic - though I don't actually read much fanfic these days except what I see on my flist/what people recommend to me, and fortunately I have an intelligent flist and trustworthy recommenders!

I remember first noticing it in The Lark and the Wren, I think, where it is definitely a 'see how hard the main character's life is' but also occasionally a plot point. I am remembering That Bitchy Servant Girl who ended up being A Spy For The Church, But That Was No Surprise To Anyone Because She Was So Bitchy. I don't know why that stuck in my mind particularly, but it has somehow become my touchstone for The Hero Is Always Right About People syndrome.

[genarti]

It's a pet peeve of mine, yeah. It's not a deal-breaker unless it's really egregious, but I'll roll my eyes.

One thing in this book is that I'm not sure the son and daughter-in-law actually are all that Irritating. Yes, Ofelia finds them so, but Ofelia is also at that point fed up with them and with lots of things and longing on a half-understood level for solitude. I suspect she's kind of abrasive or passive-aggressive to them too -- we even see moments of it -- which isn't likely to have inspired them to their best and most harmonious behavior either. It's true that we don't actually see their Irritating Personness disproved, though. I do see hints that maybe they weren't all that bad in Ofelia's gradual realization that she didn't really nurture her kids to be all they could be either, and her realization that she's a much happier person when she's alone -- as well as in the fact that Ofelia is not a reliable narrator. But it's possible that I'm to some extent reading that in because I don't want to be annoyed by Irritating Person Syndrome as much as I would be otherwise.

At the end... well, yeah. *wry* Not to everyone -- she judges too fast on some of them, and with culture clash and class issues very clearly affecting her judgement. But at least one person is pretty well textbook, alas.

[skygiants]

Yeah - it's not a deal-breaker for me either (especially since it's so common - it would eliminate so much!), but it is a . . . deal-lessener? It jolts me out of the story, more like, and while I can get back in, I make frowny faces at it.

No, I think you're definitely right that they aren't necessarily all that Irritating, or at least I didn't see them that way. Or rather, I could sympathize with them and where they were coming from . . . but I wasn't entirely sure I was supposed to. Especially since it's also meant to be, I think, part of what Jo described, setting up how difficult Ofelia's life is before the change happens, and while it's legitimately difficult, the son and daughter-in-law felt a bit like they were meant to be part of that overall difficulty and not characters in their own right. (I liked that acknowledgment that Ofelia wasn't necessarily the best mother in the world; I just wish it had picked up on that a little more and more specifically.)

I did like that it wasn't with everyone! And how clearly depicted the culture clash and class issues were - I think the switches in perspective worked really well there to balance out sympathy.

[genarti]

I think we were supposed to to some extent, because they aren't really demonized, and because there are those hints all through that Ofelia is grumpy and judgmental and altogether a perfectly fallible human and unreliable narrator. (I love her dearly, but it's still true; it's part of why I love her, really.) But I do agree that it would have been nice to have that made clearer instead of just being conveyed through subtle side hints, especially with the way the ending works out.

(Aside: I do love that she's acknowledged -- and self-acknowledged -- to have been an okay but not fantastic mother. It seems like characters are never allowed to be bad mothers without being HORRIBLE PEOPLE, or side characters in their adolescent child's story, or both. Maybe absentee mothers if they have a compelling and possibly Tragic reason, but never ordinary fallible people who mess up that bit of life.)

We've talked about some of the other characters in email, so I shan't go into it here where people might be avoiding spoilers. But you know my thoughts! And that I really love the culture clash and the depiction of class issues and class effects on how she perceives herself and the world and other characters.

[skygiants]

Honestly I would have loved to see Barto and Rosa (Rosaria? Something like that)'s reaction at the end. Darned thirty years of cry-sleep spoiling their chance of getting a perspective! But yes, I did like Ofelia much more the more the hints built up that the narrative was not supporting Ofelia's judgment on all things - because it's never exactly clear at first how unreliable a narrator is, and I was worried that the narrative was buying her judgments in a way I couldn't necessarily support.

(ME TOO. That was such a great moment, and it's so true. Mothers don't have to b eperfect! They can be people! - because I am thinking of HMC anyways, I am also think of Fanny right now, and the understanding between her and Sophie there. Which is another imperfect-mother moment that I love.)

And yes, and yes. *giggles*

[genarti]

Yesssss me TOO. Stupid cryo-sleep and FTL or whatever it is. Bah.

And yes, that is the tricky thing about an unreliable narrator. It takes a while to figure out just how unreliable they are, and if the author realizes it -- especially if the character him/herself doesn't notice much.

(Yes! I loved that. Fanny is a really good character, and I love how Sophie talks herself into things without necessarily being right about it. You go with your stepmother trope subversion, DWJ!)

[skygiants]

Where is some good old-fashioned skience when you need it?

And yes, definitely - and there are also some authors for whom I tend to assume unreliable narrators more than others. (I also think I like first-person because I almost always can assume unreliable narrator then!)

(Yesssss. The entire family dynamic in that group is so fabulous, really. Lots and lots of trope subversion!)

[furikku.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have the same reaction when I run into it. It's like, "Dude, you just took scissors to my Disbelief's string! Can't they at least pet a dog or something?"

[skygiants]

Yes that is exactly it! PETTING DOGS IS NOT THAT HARD. Instead they usually end up choking babies. D:

[genarti]

Choking babies is not that hard either...



I mean, uh.

[skygiants]

Yes, but then their parents kick up a fuss, which owners of dogs usually do not do when you pet them!

[batyatoon]

I remember once making a list of Signs You Are Reading A Novel By L.A. Graf.

One of them was "There will be at least one Extremely Petty And Annoying Person Who Is Nonetheless Nominally On Our Side, probably more. At least one of these people will turn out to be treacherous."

[skygiants]

Although I have never read anything by L.A. Graf, this seem to fit Irritating Person Syndrome to a T!

I am so much happier when good/ambiguous people find each other irritating. D: Realistic disagreement! Shades of gray!

[shati.livejournal.com]

Not just you! I was actually really happy while reading a book not long ago when what looked to be the Petty Vain Annoying Girl turned out to be kind of a sweetheart. I was like, awww, textbook case so neatly avoided! Hearts. I am so endeared by characters who look like they're going to be Irritating People Syndrome and then turn out to be, I don't know, Cordelia. Although she is all kinds of special anyway.

[skygiants]

Yes! That is one of the reasons I think why I get so excited about Bitchy Girls Who Turn Out To Be Awesome, because I am so conditioned to expect that authors are just going to have them be Bitchy And Probably Evil Girls forever and ever. (Though Cordelia is still the specialest snowflake of the bunch.)

Now I am curious about what book!