(no subject)

[skygiants]

After reading Barbara Hambly's Benjamin January books, I figured I should actually go back to the beginning and read some of her fantasy novels. I have now read the Darwath trilogy! (The Time of the Dark, The Walls of Air, The Armies of Daylight.) The Darwath Trilogy is GRIMDARK otherworld fantasy, in which grad student Gil and biker gang member Rudy get pulled through into another world where Lovecraftian monsters have just pretty much destroyed civilization and everyone needs to trek through blizzards and huddle into a giant fortress and constantly fight off things with tentacles to survive; there is lots of atmospheric description of freezing chill and overwhelming creepy foulness and so forth, as well as postapocalyptic politics. It took me a while to get into the first one, mostly because -

- okay, I have to take a digression here, which is, I am sorry, J.K. Rowling, but you have RUINED me for twinkly-eyed elderly wizard mentors. I am fairly sure I used to like twinkly-eyed elderly wizard mentors fine! Or at least I did not have the instinctive reaction to them that I have now, which goes something like, "Ha! I can see right through you! You may be a fabulous wizard but you're probably a terrible administrator, aren't you? I bet you enjoy playing God, saying irritatingly mysterious things and occasionally smiling sadly instead of doing anything useful! WHY ARE YOU TWINKLING INSTEAD OF PROVIDING REASONABLE ANSWERS, IT'S NOT CUTE." Thanks, Dumbledore.

- so anyway, I had a hard time warming to Ingold the wizard, a fairly central character, because unfortunately Barbara Hambly described him as twinkling in his first scene with Gil and a great cry of distrust rose up in my heart. But by the second book, when Ingold went off with Rudy on a long quest and started to get cranky and depressed and showed no signs of twinkling at all, I liked him much better!

The second book I also liked better because Gil just gets consecutively awesomer as the books go on. In the first book, she's a cool intellectual who pops through and turns out to be awesome with a sword, and I liked her okay but people going to mysterious otherworlds and turning out to be awesome with weaponry by great coincidence is not a new concept. But in the second and third books, Gil gets bored and starts putting her actual research skills to use as well as her badassery, and basically SAVES THE WORLD WITH DISSERTATING as well as occasionally killing people, and it's amazing. She is fantastic. I also like Rudy's-girlfriend-the-queen, because again having the stranger pop through and fall in love with a high-up lady is not particularly new, but Minalde actually has a character arc about growing into her government role, and in the second book she and Gil form an odd-couple friendship, and that's also pretty awesome. (My actual favorite characters, though, are neither of these, but Kara the untrained mage and her AWESOMELY CRANKY MOTHER. I want the fic about Kara and Tomac's epic mostly-offscreen romance while her mother rampages around cursing everyone out. I want it SO BADLY.)

Caveats: I suspect Hambly would be a lot better about this now, but there are unfortunate real-world implications all over the place with both the White Raiders, a Dangerous Tribal Group who both fill the role of and are I think explicitly compared to (in Rudy's mind, at least) the kind of savage-and-superstitious-Indian stereotype you would see in a Western, and the southern land of Alketch, which takes on the role of the Corrupt and Decadent Oriental Empire Complete With Slavery and Oppression To Women. There are a couple of vaguely friendly White Raiders; there are no noble Alketchians. Also, there is what might be ableism fail with Elkor and how he becomes vaguely-evil-via-mental-trauma-and-PTSD and then gets savagely burned, apparently just so that there can be an outward signal of the fact that he is warped. It's very Phantom of the Opera.

On a differet note, I have no idea how I feel about Gil/Ingold at the end. I mean, they seem like a good match otherwise I guess, so perhaps I am being judgy for being squicked by the forty-year age difference? And yet . . . I know some of you have read the books, how do you feel about it?

Comments

[kindness_says]

HAHAHAHA A GREAT CRY OF DISTRUST.

Also, your dream cracked me up

[skygiants]

IT'S NOT MY FAULT, IT'S DUMBLEDORE'S.

I have very serious stress dreams always. :(

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

It has been so long since I first read the books I am not sure I can remember my initial reaction properly! But it is my recollection that I didn't mind Gil/Ingold the way I mind, oh, Jo/Professor Baer or Emily/Dean (AAAAARGHH) because Gil was already an adult when they met. I expect she would seem younger to me now (was she still a grad student?) but at the time I was in middle school or high school and all post-college lives were vague, distant, and adult-y to me.

[skygiants]

Gil is definitely an adult; she's still a grad student at the time, and I think mid-twenties? Maybe 25 - but on the other hand, 25 is my age and the idea of finding true love with a sixtysomething twinkling wizard makes me go @____@ and back away very fast! But she definitely does make up her own mind about it as an intelligent, reasoning adult, and there's three books of development, so there's no real reason to disapprove, I guess . . .

[ceitfianna]

I keep meaning to read more of Hambly's stuff, she's just written so much. Also I love that Dumbledore has made you mistrust twinkling but I think that's a smart idea.

I'm adoring Queen of Attolia, the world is just so well done and I like that for a younger level book it doesn't cut corners in showing that things are tough.

[skygiants]

She has! I suspect it's going to take me like ten years to work through all of it. Oh well; there are worse things.

Queen of Attolia is amazing. King of Attolia is even better. Megan Whalen Turner is pretty much brilliant.

[ceitfianna]

I look forward to reading it, I have a feeling once I finish this book then I'll want the next one.

Hee, I love when authors have written a lot of stuff. I was realizing today that there's still so much DWJ I've yet to read along with so many other things.

[skygiants]

The realization that you have gone through all of the books by a favorite author and there will be no more is one of the saddest things in the world.

[ceitfianna]

I hate that feeling, authors need to keep writing so we can show them we love their stuff.

[nevacaruso.livejournal.com]

"Ha! I can see right through you! You may be a fabulous wizard but you're probably a terrible administrator, aren't you? I bet you enjoy playing God, saying irritatingly mysterious things and occasionally smiling sadly instead of doing anything useful! WHY ARE YOU TWINKLING INSTEAD OF PROVIDING REASONABLE ANSWERS, IT'S NOT CUTE."

Heeeee! I find Dumbledore an interesting character, but I do not think that you're entirely wrong about this. I think that at some point during their passionate crossover correspondence, Akio totally called him on it.

[skygiants]

I think I would have had an easier time if we'd just found out he was supposed to be vaguely morally ambiguous from the beginning! As it is I spent six books going "YOU ARE THE WORST PRINCIPAL EVER."

Well, I mean, given his experience with people who never provide reasonable answers ever, Akio probably thought it was hot.

[nevacaruso.livejournal.com]

Very true!

I am so still writing that fic someday.

[skygiants]

AS WELL YOU SHOULD, IT WILL BE HILARIOUS.

[ashen_key]

Gil saving the world being a HISTORY STUDENT will never, ever not be awesome. Ever. And I do admit that I ship her and Ingold - they seem to work for me, and while the age-difference does make me blink, Gil's still an adult when she meets him, and one with her own wants and opinions and all of that. And I figured who else would she fall for except the guy that is also a scholar. And so on.

And Elkor, hrm. I didn't see it as abelism so much as he suffered an awful trauma and snapped and - as noted in the text - what he needs is therapy. But they don't have a world where that is an option. And so he's just...no evil, just lost. And I can't remember the burning, actually, it's been a while since I read the books.

[skygiants]

Gil's badass grad student-ing is seriously THE BEST THING. RESEARCH: IT WORKS.

Basically I am just trying really hard not to judge Gil/Ingold based on the fact that dating a guy forty years older than me would squick me out! Gil is allowed to be into that if she wants to be . . .

I wouldn't have considered the Elkor thing as ablism - because a thing like that would be seriously traumatic, and it's fair to show that - until he got horribly burned after the invasion of the nest, and then every time he appears there is talk of his HORRIBLE SCARS and his TWISTED HAND and IS IT POSSIBLE FOR MINALDE NOT TO CRINGE FROM HIS HORRIBLE FACE with language that seems to be weirdly linked to the twisting of his personality. And, like, dude, I think the fact that you were willing to lead thousands of people to their deaths for no good reason, not to mention locking your wife up for weeks on end, is going to be harder for her to get over than the burn scars!

[ashen_key]

Gil is my favourite. And I also love it how she's allowed to remain gawky and thin and - once she takes up sword-fighting, she ends up looking WORSE with scars and being thin. Just, it's so nice.

Ahaha. Gotcha.

Ah! I do not remember that. And I can Minalde, coming from the type of society she does, acting like that. I'm not saying it's not possibly faily, but it worked as a character thing for me.

[skygiants]

Hahaha, yes. And every so often she does something FANTASTIC and Rudy is just like, "we're not into each other that way, but . . . do I find her disturbingly hot right now? I . . . weird."

Minalde doesn't even act like that, is the thing - Minalde spends the whole time going "MAYBE A LOVE OF A GOOD WOMAN WILL SAVE HIM," which, hahaha yeah Minalde nice try - but Elkor himself does, and so does the narrative. It's just - it's the linkage of internal and external scars that bothers me; the only person who really ends up dramatically, visibly disabled is the guy who is already suffering from severe psychological trauma, and considering how much of a crapsack world Darwath is, and how almost everyone else gets off pretty much physically scot-free, that comes across as unfortunate to me.

[ashen_key]

Yeep. And also, I LOVED that there was no sexual tension between Rudy and Gil. Thank you, Hambly.

...okay, yeah, that jogged my memory. D:

[skygiants]

Oh, I loved that too. Especially towards the end, when they've settled from constantly giving each other the side-eye into being very comfortable friends who value each other enormously.

[batyatoon]

Elkor himself does, and so does the narrative.

Interesting thing here -- I wonder if the narrative does because Eldor does? I mean, he sees himself as twisted and scarred and horrible, and probably did before he was burned.

Also I point out that Gil has a huge facial scar, and so do any number of the other Guards (facial or otherwise).

[skygiants]

The narrative isn't at all from his POV, though - and admittedly, mostly the person who's looking at him that way and thinking about it is Rudy, who has reasons. But the narrative doesn't undercut it, either.

Gil does have a huge facial scar! I was thinking about that. But I think the difference in treatment there is the one between "that guard has a facial scar, sign of battle prowess! Wow, she's badass!" and "that guy has a melted face and a claw for a hand! HIDE YOUR CHILDREN."

[batyatoon]

Yeah, and ... there's also the hook-handed Alketch commander, who's also got some of the visible-deformity/disability-indicating-INNER-HIDEOUSNESS thing going.

So I guess I can't really defend it. :(

[skygiants]

Hahaha man, I had totally forgotten about the one-handed Alketch commander. Which is sad given that I finished the book like yesterday.

[genarti]

I keep meaning to read these, except that I'd forgotten the names. >.> But at one point in high school I randomly picked up Icefalcon's Quest, which I think is the sequel to the trilogy? Or something -- at any rate, it's mostly about this Icefalcon dude, but there are also these people named Rudy and Gil who ~come from another world~, and at some point late in the book some detail is dropped that makes it clear that this world is ours. I thought this was TOTALLY COOL at the time, because it was so offhand, and at that point I'd only read books with People From Our World Who Come Into Another World, Have Adventures, And Go Back Home, which they clearly hadn't in whatever their prior books were.

So I am interested to read sometime! On my long list, but.

[skygiants]

Yes, it's a sequel! Icefalcon is a minor character in this one - he's the one of the White Raiders who hangs out with our guys and is Gil's comrade in the guards, and I am going to hazard a wild guess that you liked him *laughing* - but definitely present. I think you would like the books, overall. On your long list, etc.

Although, hah, you actually know my feelings about People From Our World Who Come Into Another World, Have Adventures, And Stay Without Letting Their Family Know Anything About It are a little biased by now. >.> Gil at least doesn't have a great home life, but Rudy has a sister and nieces and nephews! Who seem to care about him! AND WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

[genarti]

I don't recall much about him! But, uh, yes, I do recall that he was stoic and manpainy and had some sort of revenging-his-father? issues, and that I liked him enough to carry on reading despite not knowing a lot of the previous-story background, so in conclusion I have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Hahaha I do, yes. But from Icefalcon's Quest, at least, I remember getting the impression that they didn't have any real opportunity to return, which is what impressed me as cool and different. Usually there's always a chance, not just "Whoops, sorry, you're here now, make the best of it for the rest of your life." Now, it may be that I was projecting that conclusion onto the text because I liked it as a cool and different thing, and that they do actually get the chance and turn it down, but I remember being impressed by the version in my head at the time.

[skygiants]

Never predictable! NOT YOU.

I . . . don't know how much I should say to that, given spoilers! On the other hand I don't know how much you care.

[genarti]

I KNOW RIGHT.

I don't know how much you should either! *laughing* I knew it was a cruel statement when I made it. I am rarely hugely spoiler-avoidant, but I am also not really seeking out spoilers here either. You can be cheerfully cryptic? Or something.

[batyatoon]

If you want to borrow Mother of Winter and Icefalcon's Quest, the two sequelae to the trilogy, I have them! I like IQ a lot better than MoW and suspect you might too, but MoW is worth reading.

Gil is my favorite always. *hugs her* I gave serious thought to apping her for Milliways, but didn't think I could do her justice. (I was going to use Carrie-Anne Moss as a PB.)

[skygiants]

I may indeed! Gen was talking about Icefalcon's Quest above, and now I am curious. *laughing*

SHE IS SO AWESOME. I would have been really intrigued to see what you would do with her in Milliways, honestly! But I think she would have been frustrated with the executive meddling that would forever prevent her from figuring out Milliways' history . . .

[batyatoon]

Maybe someday I will play her in m_m! Just for lulz.