skygiants | (no subject)

Right, so, the thing is, if I had known that Samantha Shannon's Priory of the Orange Tree, which I have seen variously recced, was eight hundred pages long, I probably would have acquired the ebook. But in fact I did not know and therefore spent a week stubbornly hauling the the eight hundred page library hardback with me all around the city of Boston, and that ... may have impacted my feelings about the book ....

I mean, it's a perfectly reasonable Epic Fantasy, with worldbuilding that draws specifically on Spenser and the chivalric ideal in some unusual ways; also, I was reliably informed that there were lesbians and indeed there turn out to be so. I just found myself wishing quite often at times that it was a few hundred pages shorter.

The plot: on one side of the world, in Chivalric Fantasy Europe, undercover battle nun Ead Duryan is posing as a lady-in-waiting to Queen ~~Elizabeth I~~ Sabine, part of a hereditary line of monarchy that according to the religion of Chivalric Fantasy Europe) holds off the rise of the evil dragons of absolute evil just by existing. The rest of the world largely thinks this is bullshit, but since they also, would nonetheless prefer the evil dragons not rise, Ead's nunnery has sent her to keep the queen alive in the spirit of "eh, can't hurt."

On the other side of the world, in Fantasy Japan Has Dragons (But Not The Evil Kind) (But Try Telling That To Chivalric Fantasy Europe), dragonrider hopeful Tané buries a secret in order not to miss her chance to take part in dragonrider trials, that unsurprisingly ends up biting her in the ass as well as the local exiled Fantasy Dutch alchemist who's gotten accidentally caught up in it.

Meanwhile, the evil dragons are indeed rising, so sooner or later everyone's going to have to work together to find the right combination of MacGuffins to get them to stop -- and sooner or later everybody does, but it takes about four hundred pages of maneuvering people into position before anyone starts to do much that is useful. So that's part of it; and part of it, also, is that, while I appreciate complicating national myth and memory, and I get the temptation to have Fantasy Europe be very emphatically wrong, I wish it had turned out to be a little more complicated than Their Religion Is Based On A Lie Whereas Ours Is Based On A Feminist Truth...

But mostly, I think, this is just a perfectly reasonable example of a kind of book that just doesn't do as much for me anymore as it would have ten or fifteen years ago. There's nothing inherently wrong with a plot about bringing the world together to defeat the evil dragons of absolute evil, but it takes a lot of really good character work to make that plot feel interesting to me, personally, and character work is just not the thing that Samantha Shannon seems interested in.

(... I say, sheepishly looking at my holds on the Mallorean books at the library; but a.) nostalgia, b.) intentionally or unintentionally the David Eddings books are definitely funny, whereas only two people in the entire cast of Priory of the Orange Tree ever give any evidence of possessing a sense of humor, in the whole enormous cast of the book, and one of them dies two hundred pages in, and neither of them is the author.)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

aamcnamara

WAIT YOU'RE ON DREAMWIDTH AND KNOW

skygiants I mean that's good, you should know each other, but what

From:

shadaras

I found

skygiants due to someone else's post (not even about books! about a podcast I listen to!) literally within the last week and then was all 'ooh you like a lot of books that I like, I want to follow you'.

but yeah also I have a dreamwidth, follow for me actually talking about my life on the internet :)

From:

skygiants

omg did you find me through one of

kate_nepveu's Friends at the Table posts, HI, PLEASE TALK TO ME ABOUT FRIENDS AT THE TABLE (and also about books)

From:

shadaras

YES I DID :D (the one full of fanwork recs that

kate_nepveu posted a link to on the FatT discord)

I am DELIGHTED about FatT and what they're doing and how much drama the end of Spring is currently filled with, along with all the ??? teasing about what Season 6 will end up being (and the Road to Season 6 games! are really cool!), and it is the one podcast I've tried that I've loved like this. The fandom is also just really great and fun and seems to be full of good people, which makes me very very happy. :)

From:

skygiants

I literally just yesterday caught all the way up to the present on FatT, after spending three years slowly listening through the backlog, and was like "Maybe it's time to listen to a different podcast! ... no, actually, it's time to actually check out the FatT Patreon-only stuff that I've been ignoring for the past few years while trying to get through the entire main story backlog, YESSS ANOTHER HUNDRED EPISODES, HERE WE GO." That will probably take me another year to get through and I'm perfectly happy about it.

I don't understand how to use Discord but the FatT Discord ... sounds tempting ......

From:

shadaras

Aha, yeah, that sounds about right. A friend got me into it sometime during Winter; I don't remember exactly when, just that I somehow binged all of it in time to be pretty much caught up for TM and the start of the Patreon, and have then been keeping up to date with everything 'cause it's just that good.

The Patreon stuff is so much fun! Bluff City is amazing, and the Live stuff is generally hilarious, and Road to Season 6 is so fascinating to watch and wonder what the actual season will end up being.

The Discord is really nice overall? Like, I don't talk on it much, because giant IM spaces are not my favorite (small ones can be fun, but there are too many people there, even if only a small percentage of them are talkative), but there's a pretty consistently chill and positive vibe there, and everyone gets excited, and I get to read everyone's new-episode reactions (kindly placed in their own channel and also spoiler-texted) in real-time.

From:

skygiants

That's such impressive speed! I think they were still finishing up Counter/Weight when I started listening, lol, and I've been veeeeery slooooooooowly gaining ground ever since, pursuing over many years and many miles -- but it's sped up quite a bit over the past year, since I added a lot more walking through quiet areas where podcast listening is a reasonable thing to do to my weekly routine. I'm really looking forward to listening to Bluff City, the teaser episode they dropped in the main feed was extremely good! (And also I grew up going to Atlantic City every summer, so I expect nostalgia will be a key element too. I hope they reference Lucy the giant elephant hotel.)

That does sound pleasant! It would be nice to read episode reactions in real time rather than carefully avoiding them and then trying to dig them up on Tumblr months later ...

From:

shadaras

I had a lot of free time when I started listening, and decided to use it binging everything. In chronological order. Because I was like that. Sometime around Nacre, as you do, I fell in love with the kind of storytelling they were doing. Sometime during Counter/Weight, I realised there were specific people whose characters I would just always love (Jack and Art). That helped with just going through the whole thing very fast, though the downside is that I remember the story overall but not always the specific beats. So, uh. I've ended up relistening to it (chronologically once more) slowly, so that I can actually remember what happened when? And after a year and a half-ish of that being my while-driving-listening, I have gotten to... the part of C/W where they switch into The Sprawl.

I've never been to Atlantic City, but even for me there's a lot of fun references going around about weird Americana in general. :) I am fairly certain they do reference the elephant hotel somehow, but I couldn't tell you when or how or if there is one in Bluff City. Nostalgia is definitely a big part of it, though, since Austin grew up near to Atlantic City anyway, and at one point spent like an hour of his Drawing Maps stream just giving everyone a virtual tour of it complete with references about his life. (The rest of that stream is extremely full of spoilers for Bluff City, but that bit alone was very cool.)

Yeah! The fandom's pretty good at making sure that it's hard to read spoilers without putting effort into it, at least, even if it also makes it hard to look up reactions if you're catching up. The discord's also nice 'cause the parts of it that are just about 'hey, go ahead and have spaces to talk about whatever else you like too' are just as active as the part about the show, which helps it feel like an actual community instead of just a place to be an obsessive fan.

From:

skygiants

Nacre was definitely the point in season one where I fell hard for the show too -- not just how incredible Nacre was itself but the notion that this whole incredible thing happened because of an offhand joke about undead pirates just made me go "oh this way to make a story happen is FASCINATING." And then eventually I hit the point where I too would listen to Jack, Art and Ali do just about anything...and then I convinced my girlfriend to start listening so I also would have an excuse to relisten to episodes with her occasionally, and now we're at the Counter/Weight holiday special. >.>

YESSS ELEPHANT HOTEL! I'm so excited to pick out references as I listen. I was about to say, "I expect it will make me want to go back for a visit," but then I thought about FATT's general scene-setting and storytelling methodologies and, uh, I'm pretty sure I'd never want to visit anywhere in Hieron....

From:

shadaras

Yes! I've always loved roleplaying, and have done a lot of it, and the improv turns like that are always the best, but I have rarely seen it taken that far. I'm so glad they play systems that let them change stuff up on the fly, so that they can pull stuff like that off.

:) Bluff City probably will make you want to go back for a visit! Exactly what emotion you feel about that will depend on when in their first season-arc you are, I think.

I'd love to visit specific places in Hieron during specific times, but only for brief periods. Like. I think there are times Marielda would be interesting and fairly safe. Or Nacre, before the war. But then, that's basically... off-screen times are safer because there isn't any active pain.

From:

skygiants

It's honestly made me really want to play some of the powered-by-the-apocalypse systems, even though I know that I am nowhere near as good at improv as they are and would not be able to take it in directions anywhere near as creative, easy as they make it sound ... I just started playing a few years back when I moved to Boston, and my group is GREAT but we've mostly done D20 systems that are a bit more rule-bound. I love the character stuff they do with bonds and alignments, too.

I guess I also have to admit that I would love to visit Nacre at any time Nacre is in existence, with the caveat that I would also like to be able to go home again afterwards, which isn't usually in the cards for a Nacre vacation. However, I think it would be very unwise for me to visit Marielda because the constant reconfiguration would get me wildly lost and I would eventually starve to a confused death in an alley.

From:

shadaras

They've had a lot of practice! But even without that much practice, it's a lot of fun. :) I grew up on d20 systems (D&D 3.5), and in college started moving towards other systems (White Wolf, etc), and my friend who got me into FatT got our gaming group to try some PbtA games. It's a really nice change of pace, and for groups like mine that like storytelling more than "How big a number can I get?", it's satisfying to play in a system that biases towards "make things interesting". Bonds and alignments are great and I just want to stick bonds and beliefs into literally any game I run now, because they help define characters so much.

From:

aamcnamara

Hah the internet is tiny! Especially the Dreamwidth internet. I mostly talk about writing stuff here but also sometimes life. I am pleased to have located you on DW and that two of my friends now know each other! (

skygiants book posts are THE BEST.)

From:

shadaras

It really is! Also, I'm amused that you're now like... the only person who has found all the social media I exist on? Because DW is the one I never actively told anyone about. :)

From:

aamcnamara

I mean I don't yell a lot about my dreamwidth myself, it makes me feel like a social media hipster, like, Oh yes, I still listen to vinyl and write longform friendslocked blog posts on the internet. >.>

From:

skygiants

I have at this point accepted without embarrassment that this is my house and I'm just gonna live here until it gets bulldozed down. I'm old! Don't make me move!

From:

aquamirage

you put up your tiny fence and the neighborhood association has approved it!

From:

skygiants

🎵 IT'S A BIG LITTLE TOWN 🎵

From:

shadaras

It's funny thinking of it as a hipster space when it's probably the kind of social media that it took me the longest to actually decide I wanted to invest time into. But it's nice, and it's been reminding me that I actually like writing longer-form things, and that the friendslock option is wonderful and makes a lot of life easier.