skygiants: the princes from Into the Woods, singing (agony)
[personal profile] skygiants
I saw the new production of Camelot at City Center, with the book entirely rewritten by Aaron Sorkin!



Proposition: Aaron Sorkin thinks Camelot (1960) is a bad musical.

The way this version of Camelot works is that Aaron Sorkin & his colleagues have kept all the original songs and rewritten the book around them.

Unfortunately, Aaron Sorkin does not seem to like the songs. Aaron Sorkin thinks the songs are all a bit silly and drag the characterization in ways he doesn't want this to go. This means that every time a song happens, it is either preceded by a character making ironical remarks, interrupted by a character making ironical remarks, or followed by a character making ironical remarks. Guinevere is constantly interrupting Arthur's performance of "Camelot" to tell him that "Camelot" is a stupid song, after which Arthur protests, at length, that it's a metaphor. "What Do The Simple Folk Do" is preceded by an argument in which Guinevere tells Arthur that calling people 'simple folk' is offensive.

Proposition: Aaron Sorkin is eager to garner praise for writing a girlboss!

Guinevere. Guinevere. Guinevere wears leather pants and threatens Arthur with a knife. Guinevere has read Voltaire and is ready to explain to Arthur that hereditary nobility is bad, actually. Guinevere sings "The Simple Joys of Maidenhood" and then tells Arthur that he knows nothing about war. Guinevere brings equality to the court. Guinevere can beat Arthur at chess while reading a book with her eyes closed. Guinevere patiently leads Arthur to all of his ideas, which she had first, because Guinevere is The One With The Brain Cell! Guinevere also teaches the ladies of the court to shimmy with their hips during the lusty month of May. But Guinevere would never, herself, be lusty; Guinevere might be passionately attracted to Lancelot but she will never do anything about it; at least, not until she makes one slip, one night, because of her burning jealousy over Aaron Sorkin's stand-in Arthur, and who could blame her for that!

(And I want to be clear, Philippa Soo is performing her heart out, she truly is trying her best to be who Guinevere is in any given scene, she truly is giving her all to songs that she then immediately has to turn around and disclaim, Philippa Soo it is not your fault.)

Oh, Guinevere is also French.

Proposition: Aaron Sorkin is eager to garner praise for writing a girlboss, the second -

I will also take a minute to talk about Morgan Le Fay. Morgan Le Fay is here, for, I believe, the first time in Camelot history. Why? Who KNOWS, but she is Arthur's first love, and Mordred's mom, and she's a SCIENTIST with a PERFECT MEMORY and she can predict the future, but not with magic, just with science. Arthur goes to visit her because of a fake letter from Mordred, which is why Guinevere gets mad and jealous and sleeps with Lancelot. Arthur does not do this on purpose. Arthur is not being challenged about the law, or having a crisis of conscience about the law, or honestly struggling much in any way, tbh; Arthur has not had to face that his project is inherently doomed to fail in any way that matters. Arthur is just gullible and has not properly internalized that Morgan Le Fay Does Not Need A Man.

Proposition: Aaron Sorkin thinks he understands The Once And Future King better than Camelot (1960) understands The Once And Future King, and he is wrong.

The program that we got explains: this is a real Camelot. This is a human Camelot. This is a Camelot about ideas and politics! This is a Camelot with no magic! And OH BOY is that impossible to forget. I estimate about 30% of the dialogue is taken up by characters carefully explaining how things that are integral to the plot and themes of the narrative -- Arthur pulling the sword from the stone; Merlin seeing the future; Lancelot raising the dead -- are in fact not in any way magical and totally explicable by science. The sword was loosened by 9,999 hands before him. Merlin had lived so long that he could predict the future by guesswork, and he was not taken by Nimue, he is dead dead dead. Arthur, on the other hand, was never dead at all.

(Yes, it is Arthur that Lancelot 'raises from the dead,' after they have a swordfight that Arthur almost wins but then gets distracted by a bald eagle. Don't worry, it's really just a mild concussion! No, there's no emotional weight to it and it adds no depth or significance to their relationship. Yes, I am aware that bald eagles are a North American bird.)

Sorkin is right that The Once And Future King is a political book, and that the original musical could engage more with its politics. But The Once and Future King also holds the weight of its politics in its emotions and in its desperation and in the way people struggle towards the impossible -- and in the way that its flashes of the numinous illuminate that struggle. This version of the musical takes out almost every instance of the numinous and replaces it with a lecture or a quip.

It also does this with most of the dialogue in the show that is focused on the ways in which people actually care about each other.

Proposition: Aaron Sorkin is afraid of human affection

Part of this is simply the staging -- it's a big empty stage and everyone stands ten feet away from each other at all times and spouts rhetoric. The program explained that people are calling this production "sexy Camelot." WHO IS CALLING IT THIS. There is nothing sexy about this production! Nobody is allowed to approach each other! Lance and Arthur express no physical affection except an occasional awkward shoulderclasp. Lance and Gwen get one kiss, and then fall chastely into a prop bed next to each other for one night, after which Gwen tells Lance she never felt the same way about him that he did about her! Gwen and Arthur also get one kiss, at the very end, when it is revealed that - surprise! - after years of presumably-chaste partnership, they have been in love with each other all along, because Arthur is Aaron Sorkin's stand-in and Gwen is Perfect and Lancelot is just a big hot jock so who cares about him anyway --

Sorry. I'm getting away from staging here and into dialogue. Sorkin has really carefully excised all the dialogue that indicates that anybody actually has big personal feelings about each other, and replaced it with quips and rhetoric. The thing that for me was really damning is the fact that he keeps almost the entirety of Arthur's "Proposition" monologue at the end of Act I, barely changes any of the actual text, but he cuts any lines that refer to how the trio feel about each other:

Proposition: If I could choose, from every woman who breathes on this earth, the face I would most love, the smile, the touch, the voice, the heart, the laugh, the soul itself, every detail and feature to the smallest strand of hair-- they would all be Jenny’s. Proposition: If I could choose from every man who breathes on this earth a man for my brother and a man for my son, a man for my friend, they would all be Lance.

WHY WOULD YOU CUT THIS. Nothing lands if you cut this! It's not the personal vs. the political if there's no personal! Instead what we get is Arthur explaining twenty times that Lance didn't literally raise him from the dead. Okay, fine. I get it. Magic doesn't exist and there's no space for miracles and the thing that dooms Camelot is not the eternal struggle between human love and loyalty and the unattainable ideal of virtue, but one mistake Jenny and Lance made one time, because of a miscommunication.

For all its flaws -- and there are many -- Camelot (1960) really believes in, invests in the idea that its principals love each other, without irony, and I've never felt fonder of the original show than I am tonight.

(ETA: also [personal profile] genarti has now posted a much more thorough write-up!)
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Date: 2023-03-22 05:52 am (UTC)
landingtree: Small person examining bottlecap (Default)
From: [personal profile] landingtree
...this has me tempted to go off and start caring about the original Camelot, which I've never seen, just to spite the new one.

Date: 2023-03-22 06:11 am (UTC)
sovay: (What the hell ass balls?!)
From: [personal profile] sovay
For all its flaws -- and there are many -- Camelot (1960) really believes in, invests in the idea that its principals love each other, without irony, and I've never felt fonder of the original show than I am tonight.

Conclusion: Aaron Sorkin should not be allowed to write musicals.

(I recommend, antidotally, the original London cast recording.)

(no subject)

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Date: 2023-03-22 07:23 am (UTC)
rachelmanija: (Fishes: I do not see why the sex)
From: [personal profile] rachelmanija
Thanks, I hate it.

Date: 2023-03-22 08:29 am (UTC)
antisoppist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] antisoppist
What????

I've never seen Camelot but I read Alan J Lerner's book about writing My Fair Lady, Gigi and Camelot and remember Camelot being very difficult to write and make everybody's relationships make sense to audiences in 1960 and now I'm cross on his behalf. It's not as if he didn't put some thought into it! I mean Lerner did have eight wives so he probably got the falling in love aspect and how it can make things complicated.
Edited Date: 2023-03-22 08:29 am (UTC)

Date: 2023-03-22 11:36 am (UTC)
landofnowhere: (Default)
From: [personal profile] landofnowhere
Lerner had eight wives?! I'm not sure if that explains anything or not.

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Date: 2023-03-22 09:04 am (UTC)
alias_sqbr: A cartoon cat saying Ham! (ham!)
From: [personal profile] alias_sqbr
This play sounds terrible but I was very amused reading your description of it's terribleness :)

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Date: 2023-03-22 09:46 am (UTC)
graycardinal: Shadow on asphalt (Default)
From: [personal profile] graycardinal

Good merciful grief, who in Merlin's name gave Aaron Sorkin permission to tamper with Camelot...and either failed to include an approvals clause in Sorkin's contract or forgot to actually read the rewritten book before signing off on it?

Or...oy, surely the show is not so old that it's fallen into public domain?

And an incidental question - did Sorkin actually write Morgan le Fay into the show without giving her a song? Or if she gets a song, is it one taken away from someone else, or did someone write her a new song to go with the Sorkin script?

Either way, I can just barely possibly see this working if it were presented as a satire or extremely pointed parody of Camelot - or a brand new if bizarre iteration of Arthurian musical fanfic - but it is clearly blindingly awful as any sort of authorized rewrite of the Lerner & Loewe.

I should point out here that I am not necessarily an objective observer here, as I am in the weird corner of L. Frank Baum fandom that thinks Gregory Maguire originally wrote Wicked as an original novel and then (per a friend's formulation elsewhere) filed Ozian serial numbers onto it - none too well, at that - when it didn't sell. [This should not be taken as an indictment of the stage version, which I haven't seen, as everything I've absorbed about the stage version suggests that the folks responsible for that book managed to make the show much more Ozian, or at least much less awful, than the novel was.]

Edited (added question about Morgan) Date: 2023-03-22 09:53 am (UTC)

Date: 2023-03-22 11:37 am (UTC)
osprey_archer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] osprey_archer
HOW COULD YOU CUT THAT PROPOSITION. If Sorkin had committed NONE of his other crimes and simply cut that bit, that on its own would be enough to shatter the show, because that (in conjunction with the other propositions; the tug of the personal and political) is the HEART of the show.

Also baffled that he's cut all the magic (people love the magic!) and then spent ages and ages explaining that there is NO MAGIC GUYS. When has anything ever been improved by ponderous paragraphs about how this seemingly-magical thing is in fact totally explicable by science? If you really have to do it, at least do it concisely my dude.

My impression is that Sorkin believes that what people really loved about The West Wing were the speeches, and he's not wrong exactly, but they loved the speeches because they were balanced by propulsive plot and funny quips and genuine human affection. You can't just do all speeches all the time!

Date: 2023-03-22 01:40 pm (UTC)
genarti: Knees-down view of woman on tiptoe next to bookshelves (Default)
From: [personal profile] genarti
To his credit, such as it is, any single explanation about how a seemingly-magical thing is in fact totally explicable by science is generally fairly brief (except Morgan Le Fay's long monologue predicting 20th century scientific developments that will occur in The New Century). It's just that then it's repeated in twenty more ironical comments to the same effect.

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Date: 2023-03-22 11:43 am (UTC)
castiron: cartoony sketch of owl (Default)
From: [personal profile] castiron
Half the soundtrack of my childhood family trips was Camelot[1]; I think I've only seen it as the 1967 film version once and wasn't that impressed, but I love the songs.

I am not going to make any effort to see this version if it ever comes my way.

[1]: Well, a quarter. The rest was Neil Diamond and Grady Nutt. Ah, the days of cassette tapes rather than an iPod.

Date: 2023-03-22 11:55 am (UTC)
themis1: Lightning (Default)
From: [personal profile] themis1
What?!

This sounds, frankly, awful. I'm not going to say that the 1967 film is perfect, but it does tell the story as it should IMHO be told, and there's a moment that reduces me to tears every time. No, not the obvious one (although the battlefield scene at the end is a hanky job) - the moment when the knights ride their horses onto the round table and it cracks. Such a powerful metaphor!!

Date: 2023-03-22 01:06 pm (UTC)
coffeeandink: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coffeeandink

BUT WHY

Date: 2023-03-22 01:17 pm (UTC)
coffeeandink: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coffeeandink

Okay, I found a clip of Philippa Soo and Andrew Burnap rehearsing "Camelot" on YouTube, and oh my god, it is so ... Sorkinized.

What a terrible thing to do to good actor-singers.

Also, you can see everything that is going to go wrong in this interview with Sorkin.

Edited (Additional terribleness, linked for hate reading) Date: 2023-03-22 01:20 pm (UTC)

Date: 2023-03-22 02:15 pm (UTC)
evewithanapple: jack and katherine share a smile | <lj user="evewithanapple"</lj> (newsies | baby if i got you)
From: [personal profile] evewithanapple
Aaron Sorkin doing musical theatre is honestly a nightmare. The man is - for all the mid-2000s earnestness of The West Wing and all the grand speeches he loves to give his characters - allergic to sincerity unless he can also demonstrate how much smarter he is than everyone else in the room, which makes him a UNIQUELY bad choice for something like Camelot. Camelot's Arthur is not smart, but he is loving, and that is something that is simply not in Aaron Sorkin's wheelhouse!

Date: 2023-03-22 02:23 pm (UTC)
sanguinity: woodcut by M.C. Escher, "Snakes" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sanguinity
Oh, god no. Who the hell ever thought that giving Camelot to Aaron Sorkin would be a good idea?

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Date: 2023-03-22 03:14 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: Text: I really don't think you should put your hand inside the manticore, you don't know where it's been. (Don't put your hand inside the manticore)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
*Spock Eyebrow*

I can absolutely see Sorkin doing an irony-laden Camelot, because Sorkin. But every other artistic choice there is just Why?

Date: 2023-03-22 03:16 pm (UTC)
sophia_sol: photo of a 19th century ivory carving of a fat bird (Default)
From: [personal profile] sophia_sol
depicting love without irony is so important actually! and it's like - the thing musicals are MEANT for, in some ways! DEAR AARON SORKIN NO.

Date: 2023-03-22 03:19 pm (UTC)
ceitfianna: (Castle)
From: [personal profile] ceitfianna
Now I want to listen to the original Camelot as I love Once and Future King, it was my formative Arthurian text since I was much more a Robin Hood girl.

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Date: 2023-03-22 04:07 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
....I got as far as "it's a metaphor" and was already violently facepalming!

Date: 2023-03-22 04:09 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
"The sword was loosened by 9,999 hands before him."

-- OKAY WAIT WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

Date: 2023-03-22 04:12 pm (UTC)
vass: Small turtle with green leaf in its mouth (Default)
From: [personal profile] vass
Aaron Sorkin's stand-in Arthur

I KNEW IT.

Date: 2023-03-22 05:35 pm (UTC)
thistleingrey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thistleingrey
Oh my goodness.

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Date: 2023-03-22 07:03 pm (UTC)
laceblade: Josh of The West Wing. Text: "They were just mad at me for imposing discipline and calling them stupid." (WW: Josh: discipline)
From: [personal profile] laceblade
I stopped following Sorkin after the first few episodes of Studio 60, but the fact that he is allowed to do ANYTHING after The Newsroom continues to boggle my mind every time I'm reminded.

Date: 2023-03-22 08:26 pm (UTC)
jothra: (Failboat)
From: [personal profile] jothra
Noooooooooooooo. ;_;

Date: 2023-03-22 08:30 pm (UTC)
lirazel: CJ and Toby from The West Wing ([tv] when don't i?)
From: [personal profile] lirazel
Ooof. I'm not super crazy about the original Camelot--nor do I hate it, it's just not my favorite Arthurian adaptation. But this is unforgivable.

For someone who truly deeply loves some of the things Sorkin has created, I also really hate Sorkin. And this sort of thing is why.

(no subject)

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Date: 2023-03-22 09:10 pm (UTC)
qian: Tiny pink head of a Katamari character (Default)
From: [personal profile] qian
I enjoyed both your and Beth's reviews of this show I will never watch, and feel like rereading The Once and Future King now ...

Date: 2023-03-23 12:18 am (UTC)
obopolsk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] obopolsk
It's funny, I think I am so used to Aaron Sorkin's general air of superiority and moralizing and overall approach that all of this was kind of what I expected, and thus it didn't bother me to the same extent. (Though I still found the Morgan Le Fay scene agonizing.) I guess it's how I would have expected Sorkin to tackle the material, and so I sort of dissociated it from the original? IDK.

Date: 2023-03-23 08:32 pm (UTC)
aella_irene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aella_irene
I was just thinking about you and musicals! Though in the context of wondering if this was the production of 1776 you went to.

Argh, Aaron Sorkin, why do you have to undercut emotion? Why can you not just let people feel things, with all their ragged edges?
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