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Jun. 30th, 2009 10:51 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
skygiantsOkay, guys - I have a confession to make.
I didn't like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.
I KNOW. I'm shocked at myself too! The mere concept fills me with delight! And yet! I have been trying to figure out why, and I think maybe the biggest problem for me was just that Zombie-Slaying Ninja Master Elizabeth Bennet did not feel like Elizabeth Bennet, and Elizabeth Bennet is a character that I love enough that OOC Lizzie makes me irritable. Is a review of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies the place for in-depth character analysis? No, but I am going to add one anyways, SO THERE.
To my mind (though I welcome argument, as always), here are the things that make Elizabeth Bennet, Original Flavor an awesome character:
1. She has a fabulous sense of humor, and is just as good at laughing at herself as she is at everyone else.
2. She is independent within the confines of her society, which means that she knows how to navigate the rules to allow for her own freedom without being completely shocking (or Unbearably Spunky, for that matter). This is extremely important for Austen, and is what shows her to have good sense as well as an independent spirit.
3. She loves her family. Yes, even the silly and stupid ones.
4. She is not particularly accomplished, and what accomplishments she does have she is mediocre at. That really is important! First of all, it saves her from being too perfect, but more essentially, it means that the focus is not on what Elizabeth can do, but who she is. We like her - and so does Mr. Darcy - because of the force of her personality, not because of her zippity fingers.
Contrast this with Elizabeth Bennet, Ninja Master:
1. Grahame-Smith keeps a lot of Elizabeth's jokes, but because her own sense of WARRIOR HONOR is so easily offended, it is hard to read her except as taking herself crazy seriously. That is no fun! And makes her jokes at others' expense a lot more mean-spirited.
2. I . . . can't even quite figure out what the social rules of zombie-infected England are so I can't really comment on this one. (But I wish I did! That would be such a fascinating read!) I have to say, though, while I love the kickass ladies, this book totally pinged my "the only way for girls to be awesome is if they can beat up everyone!" senses - especially considering all the comments Elizabeth makes about being ashamed of showing any 'feminine weakness' when she is sworn to the sword, etc.
3. She dreams about beheading Lydia. D: D: D: D:
4. I really wanted Elizabeth just to be a mediocre ninja master, and not the best of the best. That would actually have been really cool! As it is, her mad zombie-slaying skillz pretty much overshadow everything else about her, and . . . I just didn't care! I wanted Original Flavor Lizzie back. :(
Other things: the truly ridiculous levels of Orientalism (oh god, the disposable ninjas and constant appropriativeness of everybody, WHY). And all the vomiting and soiling is really not as funny as Seth Grahame-Smith thinks it is. Which is not to say he doesn't get off some great lines! Or that there weren't some scenes that, by all rights, I should have thought were awesome, if I was not so cranky at the book already. Sadly, I was cranky, and though the end was better than the beginning, by that point I was unsoothable.
(Also: Charlotte Lucas' plotline. D: D: D: D: CHARLOTTE.)
I didn't like Pride and Prejudice and Zombies.
I KNOW. I'm shocked at myself too! The mere concept fills me with delight! And yet! I have been trying to figure out why, and I think maybe the biggest problem for me was just that Zombie-Slaying Ninja Master Elizabeth Bennet did not feel like Elizabeth Bennet, and Elizabeth Bennet is a character that I love enough that OOC Lizzie makes me irritable. Is a review of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies the place for in-depth character analysis? No, but I am going to add one anyways, SO THERE.
To my mind (though I welcome argument, as always), here are the things that make Elizabeth Bennet, Original Flavor an awesome character:
1. She has a fabulous sense of humor, and is just as good at laughing at herself as she is at everyone else.
2. She is independent within the confines of her society, which means that she knows how to navigate the rules to allow for her own freedom without being completely shocking (or Unbearably Spunky, for that matter). This is extremely important for Austen, and is what shows her to have good sense as well as an independent spirit.
3. She loves her family. Yes, even the silly and stupid ones.
4. She is not particularly accomplished, and what accomplishments she does have she is mediocre at. That really is important! First of all, it saves her from being too perfect, but more essentially, it means that the focus is not on what Elizabeth can do, but who she is. We like her - and so does Mr. Darcy - because of the force of her personality, not because of her zippity fingers.
Contrast this with Elizabeth Bennet, Ninja Master:
1. Grahame-Smith keeps a lot of Elizabeth's jokes, but because her own sense of WARRIOR HONOR is so easily offended, it is hard to read her except as taking herself crazy seriously. That is no fun! And makes her jokes at others' expense a lot more mean-spirited.
2. I . . . can't even quite figure out what the social rules of zombie-infected England are so I can't really comment on this one. (But I wish I did! That would be such a fascinating read!) I have to say, though, while I love the kickass ladies, this book totally pinged my "the only way for girls to be awesome is if they can beat up everyone!" senses - especially considering all the comments Elizabeth makes about being ashamed of showing any 'feminine weakness' when she is sworn to the sword, etc.
3. She dreams about beheading Lydia. D: D: D: D:
4. I really wanted Elizabeth just to be a mediocre ninja master, and not the best of the best. That would actually have been really cool! As it is, her mad zombie-slaying skillz pretty much overshadow everything else about her, and . . . I just didn't care! I wanted Original Flavor Lizzie back. :(
Other things: the truly ridiculous levels of Orientalism (oh god, the disposable ninjas and constant appropriativeness of everybody, WHY). And all the vomiting and soiling is really not as funny as Seth Grahame-Smith thinks it is. Which is not to say he doesn't get off some great lines! Or that there weren't some scenes that, by all rights, I should have thought were awesome, if I was not so cranky at the book already. Sadly, I was cranky, and though the end was better than the beginning, by that point I was unsoothable.
(Also: Charlotte Lucas' plotline. D: D: D: D: CHARLOTTE.)
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:03 pm (UTC)I will (as I have a few times) recommend another book which is not a direct copy of Pride and Prejudice, but it is in Austen's style and combines nicely with Lovecraftiana-type things with a side order of Dickens (what with poor Eldyn and all) that I absolutely loved.
The Magician and Mrs. Quent which looks like it might be a series in the making and I very much hope so. I will not spoil anything, but I will say it has the very BEST final showdown EVER in the make me fall over laughing way.
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:11 pm (UTC)I have heard of The Magician and Mrs. Quent and find it highly intriguing! It is totally on my list. :D I do really love books that successfully show people coping with fantasy and sci-fi tropes in a way that is in line with Regency or Victorian society - it's why I love good steampunk, too. The combination of the strict social rules and the completely bizarre is so interesting! And often hilarious.
. . . man, I really need a VICTORIANS IN SPAAAACE icon.
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:17 pm (UTC)...also, I just really love Rafferty and Ivy and Eldyn.
But yeah, PAPAZ just hit me the wrong way. The text felt wrong to me, and after reading TMAMQ and seeing it done so RIGHT? It couldn't get through more than maybe forty pages before putting the book down and moving on. I think the problem is that he just kind of cut and pasted instead of taking the concepts and merging them properly, like a fanfic that forgets that Buffy and Forever Knight have different vampires, and while there was the quirk factor there that got books sold, I don't think the story itself was worth buying.
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:26 pm (UTC)Yeah, and I was sad, because I kept seeing things that could have been so cool if followed up on and explored - like the comment about Mrs. Bennet sort of mentally being stuck in the society of her youth, or, I mean, the whole 'deadly arts' thing as a Suitable Accomplishment for Young Ladies - but instead it was all there for the jokes. Which is fair, I guess, if you're there for the jokes, but, again, made me cranky.
(Though I am finding that the whole review-on-LJ thing is very helpful with getting me through books I might otherwise have trouble finishing, because I can mentally compose my grumpy rants as I am reading! :D)
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Date: 2009-06-30 04:52 pm (UTC)Find a Civil Campaign icon or three, that'll do it. *grin*
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Date: 2009-06-30 05:39 pm (UTC)(Also, on a completely unrelated topic: what did you think of the most recent Haruhi? I think I kind of like it best of any of the episodes so far!)
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Date: 2009-06-30 06:01 pm (UTC)Which would be beyond awesome--but I'm not sure A Civil Campaign is a good jumping-on point, so we'd have to start with, at the very least, Memory (if not Warrior's Apprentice or even Cordelia's Honor)...
what did you think of the most recent Haruhi? I think I kind of like it best of any of the episodes so far!
I'm amazed that they're doing "Endless Eight" in, well, no less than three episodes now. Then again, "The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya," that is, Book 2, is kind of simple, and is mostly already taken care of (it's the tale of the filming of the movie that is episode 0 of the first season), so I guess they extended the time loops instead.
As a story, I'm partial to "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" over "Endless Eight," because I like predestination paradoxes (and because I can't think of "Endless Eight" without thinking of the fantastic Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Cause and Effect," which isn't a slight against "Eight" exactly, but does sort of color my perceptions--I keep wanting to see everyone but Haruhi playing poker, with Yuki as Data, Mikuru as Crusher, Itsuki as Worf and Kyon as Riker) and the way that Kyon, in a lot of ways, made Haruhi what she is, and so the world he's in is his own fault. That theme will come back when they (as everyone assumes they will as the conclusion of this 28-ep run) air what will hopefully be a five- or six-part "Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya." (Book 4, for those keeping track.)
I've been loving the art, especially the firework sequences, and the creepy nature of repetition is really driven home by Yuki's "we have done this 15,498 times." There's a line in the light novel, as I recall, that this isn't the first time the gang has figured it out, either. (Nor is it anywhere in the first, oh, few thousand times.)
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Date: 2009-06-30 06:18 pm (UTC)(Man, the mental image of Itsuki as a Klingon is kind of terrifying. His expression as he crushed your skull would be so politely chipper!)
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Date: 2009-06-30 06:23 pm (UTC)Yeah, there's a reason Yuki is the favored character of the fans--not to mention of Tanigawa Nagaru (the creator) himself.
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Date: 2009-06-30 06:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 03:25 pm (UTC)(For that matter, I also thought that various flist people could do a much better job with the concept. ^^;; So yes.)
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:34 pm (UTC)You know, it probably would have worked better if it was a work of serious creepy horror with the zombie plague just beginning. But having them established from forty years back means you really have to do a lot more work to establish the society than Grahame-Smith did.
(I know, right? Man, I could name twenty people that I would so much rather have had write this.)
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:54 pm (UTC)You know, it probably would have worked better if it was a work of serious creepy horror with the zombie plague just beginning.
Ooh, you're very right. It could have been very dark and psychological and full of gallows-humour, but still recognizably Austen-esque! It could be like Northanger Abbey, but with more actual horror elements?
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Date: 2009-06-30 04:03 pm (UTC)And dude, yes! With everyone very determinedly going about trying to pretend nothing was happening and going on i nthe same way, and all this dark creepiness going on underneath, and the Austen-voice quietly satirizing it all. (Also man, Northanger Abbey and Vampires - now that is a book I would read in a heartbeat!)
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:42 pm (UTC)BUT. I totally agree with you about the reasons why Elizabeth Bennet OF one of the best written female characters in all of literature. And removing any of those things that make her amazing hurts my English major soul.
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:49 pm (UTC)AND YES FOR SERIOUS. Elizabeth Bennet doesn't need to be a ninja master to be awesome! She is amazing just as she is!
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Date: 2009-06-30 04:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 04:19 pm (UTC)Charlotte gets bitten by a zombie, and marries Mr. Collins so she can have a few months of happiness and independence before the inevitable end. NO ONE else besides Elizabeth notices that she is slowly succumbing to the zombie plague, except Lady Catherine, who prolongs the extent of her transformation by sneakily slipping semi-effective zombie serum into her food during their dinners at Rosings. Eventually Mr. Collins is forced to realize that she is a zombie and beheads her, writes a snide letter to the Bennets about Lydia, and HANGS HIMSELF. WHAT.
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Date: 2009-06-30 05:32 pm (UTC)Um....WHAT?????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????
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Date: 2009-06-30 05:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 05:48 pm (UTC)I'm forgetting you ever told me that and I'm going home and rereading P&P original flavor tonight. For the 150th time :)
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Date: 2009-06-30 05:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 03:43 pm (UTC)I liked the idea, and even some of the things that were done (I kind of liked Charlotte's plotline! Marrying Colin's is kind of like becoming a zombie! And the things she said: hard time choosing between Darcy and Fitzwilliam for Elizabeth because Fitzwilliam was so nice but Darcy at such a big head filled with delicious delicious brains!). The ending though: URG. The POINT of P&P is that people that aren't good people DO get to live well after all, just as good people sometimes don't get exactly what they planned.
It just struck me as someone's crack fic they posted on LJ that someone managed to find a publisher by accident: good on them for get published but what???
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:53 pm (UTC)(Hee, I did love that line of Charlotte's, but I was so sad because I love that Charlotte makes the supremely practical choice that Lizzie doesn't, and the contrast there. Also, people slowly losing their humanity is one of my major horror-freakout kinks, so I was freaked out as well as sad for her, but that is just me.) And yes, so much yes! All I have to say about the Lydia-Wickham ending and the Mr. Collins ending both is a massive dose of WTF.
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Date: 2009-06-30 03:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 03:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 10:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 02:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 04:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 04:59 pm (UTC)I didn't even finish it. I never do that.
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Date: 2009-06-30 05:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 05:01 pm (UTC)I wish he hadn't used so much of the original text, too, because it was like grafting crackfic onto Real Fic and the two did NOT integrate well.
Good for the occasional chuckle, and then uh, passing on to your friends. :D
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Date: 2009-06-30 05:44 pm (UTC)Speaking of, what do you want me to do with your copy? Should I send it back to you? Pass it along to someone else?
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Date: 2009-06-30 07:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-06-30 07:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 02:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 02:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 12:12 pm (UTC)I think we're almost up to you on the Catching Fire list, too, actually.
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Date: 2009-07-01 02:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 03:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-07-01 03:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 03:32 pm (UTC)I haven't finished it yet (I will finish it) but I had to come dig up this post to confirm that I'M NOT ALONE.
I feel like a traitor. It SHOULD be good.
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Date: 2010-03-19 03:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 05:52 pm (UTC)KATANAS ARE JAPANESE AND THE PLURAL OF NINJA IS NINJA.
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Date: 2010-03-19 06:07 pm (UTC)ALSO NINJA ARE NOT DISPOSABLE RESOURCES >.< >.< >.<
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Date: 2010-03-19 06:11 pm (UTC)IDK. I never figured out what Kitty's point was.
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Date: 2010-03-19 06:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 06:15 pm (UTC)