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Sep. 9th, 2009 11:04 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
skygiantsToday is a day I think for talking about immortal boyfriends!
Okay, more specifically, it is for talking about Tananarive Due's My Soul to Keep, which is, I believe, the first book in a trilogy about secret immortals. I really enjoyed Due's The Good House, and I had heard that her other books did some interesting and unusual things with the vampire/immortal boyfriend trope, so, while the vampire/immortal boyfriend trope does not do much for me on the whole, I thought I might as well give them a try.
I didn't like it as much as I hoped, though a lot of that is, I think, just a case of Not My Trope. Due is definitely doing something a little bit new with the Immortal Boyfriend. For one thing, not everyone is white! All of the immortals are African, and Jessica and her family are African-American, which is pretty cool. For another, it is not set in high school! By the time the story begins, Jessica and David/Dawit have been married for ten years, and they have a daughter, Kira. As far as Jessica knows, her husband is a jazz scholar who is mysteriously well-versed in historical facts and is weirdly uninterested in contemporary politics, and keeps saying strange things like "I wish you would drop your job as an investigative journalist and come spend more time with our family! WE HAVE SO LITTLE TIME!" David, for his part, is beginning to come up against his fears that the first family he has cared about is going to grow old and die. In the very first scene of the book, he comes face-to-face with the 80-year-old daughter that he abandoned when she was a child, and ends up killing her out of sheer panic and disgust. The rest of the plot spirals out of his need to cover that up, and his growing determination to break the rules of his Secret Immortal Boy's Club and transfer immortality to Jessica and Kira, whether they want it or not. Meanwhile, the Immortal Boy's Club provide some narrative tension as they start to wonder if they should kill the ladies before things get out of hand.
I think my biggest disappointment is that I kept wanting the book to go further with subverting the myth of how awesome it would be to be Married to Mr. Cullen than it did. David/Dawit is clearly shown as scary and does many things that I would consider unforgivable - not to mention all the basic worldview differences that make him and Jessica not super compatible - and for a while the book seemed like it was going to commit to highlighting that creepiness. At the same time, though, there is a whole lot about how super sexy he is and how much he loves his family and how ~everything he does is for them~, and by the end, even though it is definitely not a HEA romance, there was a lot more forgiveness for him and affirmation of his and Jessica's ~true love~ than I wanted there to be. In a way, Due does too good a job subverting the archetype - she goes so far that I really kind of hated Dawit a lot, and could not deal with it when the book asked me to sympathize with him again. (This also meant that I enjoyed the flashbacks where Dawit is dealing with fascinating historical things like slavery and the Harlem Renaissance a lot less than I would have otherwise, because they were All Dawit Angst, All The Time, and basically I did not care.) My favorite character was Jessica's sister the awesome doctor, who thinks David is a total creep and whose first reaction upon finding out about David's Magic Immortal Blood is like, "I do not care about your unhealthy relationship with your immortal husband, I CARE ABOUT CURING CANCER. >:O" I wanted to read a book about her!
Anyway. In short: angsty immortal romances, not my particular cup of tea. What about you guys? Are there any Immortal Boyfriends that do really work for you, or that you especially hate? Show your work!
Okay, more specifically, it is for talking about Tananarive Due's My Soul to Keep, which is, I believe, the first book in a trilogy about secret immortals. I really enjoyed Due's The Good House, and I had heard that her other books did some interesting and unusual things with the vampire/immortal boyfriend trope, so, while the vampire/immortal boyfriend trope does not do much for me on the whole, I thought I might as well give them a try.
I didn't like it as much as I hoped, though a lot of that is, I think, just a case of Not My Trope. Due is definitely doing something a little bit new with the Immortal Boyfriend. For one thing, not everyone is white! All of the immortals are African, and Jessica and her family are African-American, which is pretty cool. For another, it is not set in high school! By the time the story begins, Jessica and David/Dawit have been married for ten years, and they have a daughter, Kira. As far as Jessica knows, her husband is a jazz scholar who is mysteriously well-versed in historical facts and is weirdly uninterested in contemporary politics, and keeps saying strange things like "I wish you would drop your job as an investigative journalist and come spend more time with our family! WE HAVE SO LITTLE TIME!" David, for his part, is beginning to come up against his fears that the first family he has cared about is going to grow old and die. In the very first scene of the book, he comes face-to-face with the 80-year-old daughter that he abandoned when she was a child, and ends up killing her out of sheer panic and disgust. The rest of the plot spirals out of his need to cover that up, and his growing determination to break the rules of his Secret Immortal Boy's Club and transfer immortality to Jessica and Kira, whether they want it or not. Meanwhile, the Immortal Boy's Club provide some narrative tension as they start to wonder if they should kill the ladies before things get out of hand.
I think my biggest disappointment is that I kept wanting the book to go further with subverting the myth of how awesome it would be to be Married to Mr. Cullen than it did. David/Dawit is clearly shown as scary and does many things that I would consider unforgivable - not to mention all the basic worldview differences that make him and Jessica not super compatible - and for a while the book seemed like it was going to commit to highlighting that creepiness. At the same time, though, there is a whole lot about how super sexy he is and how much he loves his family and how ~everything he does is for them~, and by the end, even though it is definitely not a HEA romance, there was a lot more forgiveness for him and affirmation of his and Jessica's ~true love~ than I wanted there to be. In a way, Due does too good a job subverting the archetype - she goes so far that I really kind of hated Dawit a lot, and could not deal with it when the book asked me to sympathize with him again. (This also meant that I enjoyed the flashbacks where Dawit is dealing with fascinating historical things like slavery and the Harlem Renaissance a lot less than I would have otherwise, because they were All Dawit Angst, All The Time, and basically I did not care.) My favorite character was Jessica's sister the awesome doctor, who thinks David is a total creep and whose first reaction upon finding out about David's Magic Immortal Blood is like, "I do not care about your unhealthy relationship with your immortal husband, I CARE ABOUT CURING CANCER. >:O" I wanted to read a book about her!
Anyway. In short: angsty immortal romances, not my particular cup of tea. What about you guys? Are there any Immortal Boyfriends that do really work for you, or that you especially hate? Show your work!
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Date: 2009-09-09 04:11 pm (UTC)Occasionally there's a series where Speshul Human Chick dumps Dark Angsty Boyfriend Vamp and hooks up with Blond Brat Prince Vamp for a bit, and those can be fun. Actually, I can only think of two, which are Buffy/Spike (not really my OTP but at least Spike doesn't make me want to stab my eyes out like Angel did), and Sookie/Eric from Southern Vampire Mysteries/True Blood.
But, um, that's really all I can think of.
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Date: 2009-09-09 04:19 pm (UTC)One thing about this book that I did like was that Jessica is very much a real person, with strong family ties, a promising career, actual friends and goals and so forth. There is no Dudes Fall Over In Droves For Her Love, and the pressure that Mr. Immortal Perfect puts on her to give up aspects of her real life actually is a big and problematic issue.
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Date: 2009-09-09 04:46 pm (UTC)Okay, now that that's out of my system:
I have never seen this trope done well. Ever. EVER.
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Date: 2009-09-09 05:23 pm (UTC)I keep feeling like there must be one that does it well! Somewhere! Out there! Like a mysterious brooding immortal holy grail!
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Date: 2009-09-09 05:02 pm (UTC)Though I know for a fact, it probably wasn't done well, but I always enjoyed it because at least there were swords with the angst and pretty flashbacks.
Honestly after playing lots of Vampire the Masquerade in high school, I've never really been that much of a fan of reading actually books with Vampires in them. I tried some Anne Rice and found the purple far too much for me and I don't think I've ever really read any others.
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Date: 2009-09-09 05:31 pm (UTC)Ironically, I know I've enjoyed the occasional angsty ghost romance - despite being technically similar in premise, somehow that does not ping as many of my irritation buttons. Possibly because it usually doesn't work out in the end. >.>
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Date: 2009-09-09 06:54 pm (UTC)Ghost ones sound much more interesting and if I'm in the mood for crazy angst, I'll read Wuthering Heights, the only Bronte book I like. Jane Eyre made me want to hurt Jane so much, she just annoyed me.
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Date: 2009-09-09 07:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-09 08:19 pm (UTC)Though it has been rather a long time since I read either of them.
What got me about Jane Eyre was what I read as her I have to be good and will look down on everyone who's trying to clearly stop me from it. Its sort of why I don't like Fanny from Mansfield Park too. I like characters that are I don't know not that morally anything.
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Date: 2009-09-09 08:39 pm (UTC)Then again, maybe I would like Fanny more if I read her these days too! My love for Jane came about as of the last time I read the books, which was pretty recently.
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Date: 2009-09-09 08:41 pm (UTC)Well, there was a good movie adaptation of Mansfield Park that I quite enjoyed and made me like Fanny and that's one of the Austens I haven't read in a while.
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Date: 2009-09-09 05:34 pm (UTC)That being said, people on the internets have this tendency to mockingly refer to the Immortal Boyfriend who has a teenage girl friend as "pedophiles," and that really peeves me. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE WORD MEANS. GIRLS ARE NOT CHILDREN. ... /random.
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Date: 2009-09-09 05:42 pm (UTC)- actually, you know, speaking of ghost stories up above, I think Ghost Girlfriend is significantly more common than Vampire Girlfriend or Immortal Girlfriend. Which is really, really disturbing, when you think about it.
Well, I do think that adults hitting on fourteen or fifteen-year-old girls is pretty creepy! So I get where that comes from. Seventeen or eighteen is a different story, even though it sketches me out still.
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Date: 2009-09-09 06:07 pm (UTC)Though, it didn't help that the first time I saw it, it was referring to Angel and Buffy. Way to completely infantilize Buffy, dude.
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Date: 2009-09-09 07:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-09 08:09 pm (UTC)But I mean, when it comes to say, Edward and Bella, I can get the idea of wanting a partner who's very young and attractive, but also has the wisdom of a centenarian. Really, the age difference was about the thing of least concern in that relationship.
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Date: 2009-09-09 08:34 pm (UTC)Wish fulfillment was maybe the wrong word, with Buffy. But identification, definitely. I mean, I am fairly sure most people do not watch the show and identify with Angel. Of course, someone is now going to jump in here and tell me why I am wrong!
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Date: 2009-09-10 04:27 am (UTC)Really, the only other things I can think of (which I like) off the top of my head either involve both parties being immortal or the relationship is confined to the tragic fanfiction in my head. This could also be the result of me not thinking too clearly today, though.
...For the record, I am very fond of Angel as a character. But I was first exposed to him through Angel, so it was him being angsty but also goofy and heroic. And well-acted. Without Buffy around. (And before the thing with Cordy. ...Which I actually liked. So, yeah.)
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Date: 2009-09-10 04:33 am (UTC)I was trying to think, and the only one I can really thik of is Mitt/Maewen of Diana Wynne Jones' Dalemark Books . . . and, first of all, it is DWJ and she is the exception that breaks every rule, and second of all, it is pretty much confined to angsty fanfic, yeah. (And third of all they knew each other pre-immortalness, which is kind of a significant factor for me.)
I think Angel is a HILARIOUS character. I love it when he is angsty as long as everyone else is making fun of his angst. :D Sadly the show tends to take him seriously when it is Romantic Angst, which is less entertaining for me. >.>
(Also, you should know that I got the first volume of Monster out of the library because I was sick of waiting for the second volume of 20th Century Boys to be processed. Damn you, Urusawa!)
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Date: 2009-09-10 04:42 am (UTC)Ooh, I hadn't thought of them, it's been so long since I've read Dalemark. Though actually, my examples were also DWJ! I was thinking of how Mordion and Vierann in Hexwood are both going to live a very long time. ...Also of the angsty fanfic in my head regarding Jamie and Helen. >.>
Even he makes fun of his angst sometimes! And he can be so...dorky. I love my brooding tough guys who are secretly dorks. (See: Fakir. Also Bourne.) But yeah, I could deal with much less Angel/Buffy romantic angst.
(Aaah, I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on it! The art isn't quite as polished as it gets later on, but it is still AMAZING. Especially the end of the volume~ Urasawa is too compelling for his own good. ...Okay, our own good.)
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Date: 2009-09-10 05:01 am (UTC)Both semi-immortal is different I think! Jamie and Helen totally count, though. >.> Not that I have mental angsty fanfic for them either or anything, uh.
I think my favorite Angel moment in all of ANYTHING is the dorky dancing scene. Well, that and "usually we're laconic," although that is really more an Oz moment. (HAHAHA FAKIR. Fakir is in a special broody category all his own. The kind of category that jumps through windows JUST FOR THE DRAMATIC LULZ.)
(The library has ALL OF THEM! The library that I now live ten minutes away from! I sort of predict devouring at speed once I have paid off my fines um.)
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Date: 2009-09-10 05:24 am (UTC)It is quite different, but I seem to be failing at coming much closer to the mark! And of course you don't. We're not Jamie/Helen shippers here, not at all.
I LOVE THAT SCENE. Though I also love the time he disguised himself as a clueless tourist, complete with Hawaiian shirt. ...Also when he jumped dramatically into the wrong convertible. (Fakir stands above them all.)
(YOU HAVE AN AWESOME LIBRARY. Though I advise pacing, as I have devoured Urasawa at a high speed and later regretted it, lamenting that I should have paused more to consider the issues being raised as I went along [that was with Pluto, I imagine it would be even worse had I done so with Monster]. tsk tsk~ :P)
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Date: 2009-09-10 01:51 pm (UTC)Hey, I thought of one! Sunshine! Except that I kind of love Sunshine because Con is not Sunshine's Immortal Boyfriend and Mel is made of awesome, so . . . once again, it doesn't really count. Anyway, of course not. NO SHIPPERS HERE. HELEN/ADAM ALL THE WAY.
Hah! I remember the Hawaiian shirt, I am not sure I remember the wrong convertible - but then I have not seen all the way through Angel. *sheepish* (Right up until Duck bumps into him and he falls over.)
(I LOVE IT. <33333 - ahahaha warning duly noted. I will do my best!)
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Date: 2009-09-11 01:29 am (UTC)Con is Sunshine's Immortal "It's very complicated and I'd rather not think about it too closely." Which is a very different and far more interesting category! But at least you can think of a good vampire book, now? AND NOBODY HERE SUPPORTS A DOOMED LOVE, WE WOULDN'T DREAM OF IT.
I actually think its somewhere in the first season. ...Which I always remember much more clearly because it's still the only one we own. >.> (Then he falls flat on his blushing face. ...Above them all.)
(If, however, it is impossible, I will fully understand. It's the kind of series you want to read at least twice, anyway.)
no subject
Date: 2009-09-11 01:12 pm (UTC)I have some very clear recollections of the first season, and some very vague ones, and some episodes I skipped over because I only had the DVDs for the full season out for 48 hours from the library. >.> So my knowlecge is far from complete! (And then Duck flails about because he's GOING TO PUT HIS EYE OUT with all that sharp weaponry!)
(Man, I wish it was in my budget to buy epic piles of manga so I could just buy everything up right away! Then again, maybe it is best that the library imposes some limits . . .)
no subject
Date: 2009-09-12 03:20 am (UTC)Angel got off to a marvelous start, if you ask me. It's probably one of the stronger first seasons out there. I would say it is worth checking out again, at your leisure. (And he glares at her disapprovingly. ...While blushing.)
(I am spending way too much money on Urasawa, I admit. ...Then again, I would argue that he deserves every cent, sooo...yeah.)
no subject
Date: 2009-09-12 03:33 am (UTC)One of these days! I still, um, have to finish seasons 2 and 3 of Buffy first. I want to! But the thing is, once I do, it will officially be all gone. :O (And then throws her underwear at her head.)
(He totally deserves it! If I could be spending money on books instead of on moving costs at the moment, that is where it would be going. :D)
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Date: 2009-09-12 03:44 am (UTC)Ooh, those are totally the best seasons of Buffy! (And resolutely faces elsewhere!)
(But it is a good thing that you are able to control yourself and take care of important things such as moving costs! Urasawa will remain on the market.)