(no subject)
May. 24th, 2017 08:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
skygiantsI have spent the last five days rereading through Megan Whalen Turner's Queen's Thief books at the rate of one a day, and doing very little else!
If you've missed them, the long arc of the Queen's Thief series features the three warring alt!Grecian kingdoms of Sounis, Eddis and Attolia getting their act together to avoid being absorbed by an alt!Babylonian empire. The books are heavy on well-researched worldbuilding, political complexity, and third-act twists; they are light on divine influence, though the gods do have a plan and they would rather like the protagonists to stop whining about it. Books include:
The Thief: A magus, his two apprentices, a soldier and a thief go on a life-changing field trip to steal a divine king-making relic, and Megan Whalen Turner shows off her unreliable first-person narration.
The Queen of Attolia: All three kingdoms start a slapfight with each other while the series protagonist sulks in his room, except when he's stealing important political figures from other kingdoms. Megan Whalen Turner would like you to know she can dance deftly around significant information just as easily in omniscient third as she can in first.
The King of Attolia: A sweet, honest guardsman punches his king in the face, and proceeds to regret every single one of his life choices. Megan Whalen Turner's like "look, this time I'm using limited third and telling you EXACTLY what my protagonist thinks and believes at any given time, it's not MY fault he only knows like 20% of what's actually going on."
A Conspiracy of Kings: The heir to the kingdom of Sounis is like "I COULD sort out this civil war by becoming king OR I could do hard labor for the rest of my life and honestly the latter sounds more appealing?" Megan Whalen Turner returns to first person but is too busy examining questions of ethics around violence in the political sphere to put all that much effort into setting up twists.
On a reread: dang, Conspiracy of Kings is dark! Queen of Attolia is also, admittedly, fairly dark -- not even much for Gen losing a hand as for Eddis grimly and soberly choosing war, despite knowing the costs -- but it honestly does not compare. And King of Attolia is in some ways almost the most idealistic of the books; it's a book-long exercise in proving that you don't always have to choose the darkest path in order to retain power. "Okay, Becca, but in that book Irene does torture her father figure and nearly executes almost everyone she cares about -" YEAH, BUT THE POINT OF ALL THAT IS THAT EVERYONE LEARNS A VALUABLE LESSON NOT JUST ABOUT KINGSHIP BUT ALSO ABOUT FRIENDSHIP, OKAY. The important lesson that Sophos learns in Conspiracy of King is that no matter how hard you try to escape from it, sometimes violence is the only answer and even if you consider the costs unacceptable, there's no way to avoid them. There's a passage early in Conspiracy where Sophos/Sounis thinks about poor Berrone's habitual acts of kindliness, such as freeing caged birds and saving kittens, and how nobody has the heart to tell her that nothing she does changes anything for the better -- to me, that's about the bleakest passage in the whole series. I do like lots of things about Conspiracy, but it will probably remain my least favorite for that reason.
Anyway, yesterday I finally got to the point where I could read the just-published new book, Thick as Thieves. I am happy to report that Thick of Thieves is way less bleak! We're back in life-changing field trip territory and it's GREAT.
I do love all the books but it was sort of refreshing to have a couple of protagonists who are not royalty, and, while significant in the grand scheme of things, are not wrestling with the Great Burdens of Power. Instead they're just going on a relatively straightforward journey to learn the nature and value of personal freedom, and also love, as expressed through the medium of Gilgamesh fanfic! Two great tastes that go great together.
(shati: does eugenides get annoyed gods and kamet get his OTP shipping him back?
me: yes, that's exactly what's happening here. also, i'm adding that to my booklog.
shati: anyway that is exactly what eugenides and kamet respectively deserve)
The only thing about the plot that particularly surprised me was that the guy(/god) who leads Kamet to the docks at the very beginning wasn't sent by Eugenides as part of Operation: Steal Kamet's Entire Life Through Ingenious Lies, as I had initially assumed. That said, at this point in the series, the twists aren't really the point anymore; "yes, Eugenides chessmastered it" should not be a surprise, the point is what we all learn about ourselves while counting down until the point where Eugenides reveals that he chessmastered it!
I vastly enjoyed Kamet and Kamet's POV, and also the difference between Costis in Costis-POV and Costis in Kamet-POV. Costis: "I'm just your average guy, nothing special about me!" Kamet: "did I mention this Attolian is SIX FEET TALL and SUPER JACKED, also EXTREMELY PRETTY." I'm very glad that Costis got a nice vacation after his very stressful time in King of Attolia. Sure, there were some bumps in the road, and it was all very stressful for Kamet, but Costis is an outdoorsy type! He likes hiking and fighting lions! Anyway what I'm saying is I'm pretty sure that Costis would rather have been kicked in the balls by his bosom companion Kamet A HUNDRED TIMES than face one more agonizing Attolian royal makeout session. I hope the fact that Costis and Kamet have gone off to spy blissfully for Attolia together in another country doesn't mean we'll never see them again in the series!
If you've missed them, the long arc of the Queen's Thief series features the three warring alt!Grecian kingdoms of Sounis, Eddis and Attolia getting their act together to avoid being absorbed by an alt!Babylonian empire. The books are heavy on well-researched worldbuilding, political complexity, and third-act twists; they are light on divine influence, though the gods do have a plan and they would rather like the protagonists to stop whining about it. Books include:
The Thief: A magus, his two apprentices, a soldier and a thief go on a life-changing field trip to steal a divine king-making relic, and Megan Whalen Turner shows off her unreliable first-person narration.
The Queen of Attolia: All three kingdoms start a slapfight with each other while the series protagonist sulks in his room, except when he's stealing important political figures from other kingdoms. Megan Whalen Turner would like you to know she can dance deftly around significant information just as easily in omniscient third as she can in first.
The King of Attolia: A sweet, honest guardsman punches his king in the face, and proceeds to regret every single one of his life choices. Megan Whalen Turner's like "look, this time I'm using limited third and telling you EXACTLY what my protagonist thinks and believes at any given time, it's not MY fault he only knows like 20% of what's actually going on."
A Conspiracy of Kings: The heir to the kingdom of Sounis is like "I COULD sort out this civil war by becoming king OR I could do hard labor for the rest of my life and honestly the latter sounds more appealing?" Megan Whalen Turner returns to first person but is too busy examining questions of ethics around violence in the political sphere to put all that much effort into setting up twists.
On a reread: dang, Conspiracy of Kings is dark! Queen of Attolia is also, admittedly, fairly dark -- not even much for Gen losing a hand as for Eddis grimly and soberly choosing war, despite knowing the costs -- but it honestly does not compare. And King of Attolia is in some ways almost the most idealistic of the books; it's a book-long exercise in proving that you don't always have to choose the darkest path in order to retain power. "Okay, Becca, but in that book Irene does torture her father figure and nearly executes almost everyone she cares about -" YEAH, BUT THE POINT OF ALL THAT IS THAT EVERYONE LEARNS A VALUABLE LESSON NOT JUST ABOUT KINGSHIP BUT ALSO ABOUT FRIENDSHIP, OKAY. The important lesson that Sophos learns in Conspiracy of King is that no matter how hard you try to escape from it, sometimes violence is the only answer and even if you consider the costs unacceptable, there's no way to avoid them. There's a passage early in Conspiracy where Sophos/Sounis thinks about poor Berrone's habitual acts of kindliness, such as freeing caged birds and saving kittens, and how nobody has the heart to tell her that nothing she does changes anything for the better -- to me, that's about the bleakest passage in the whole series. I do like lots of things about Conspiracy, but it will probably remain my least favorite for that reason.
Anyway, yesterday I finally got to the point where I could read the just-published new book, Thick as Thieves. I am happy to report that Thick of Thieves is way less bleak! We're back in life-changing field trip territory and it's GREAT.
I do love all the books but it was sort of refreshing to have a couple of protagonists who are not royalty, and, while significant in the grand scheme of things, are not wrestling with the Great Burdens of Power. Instead they're just going on a relatively straightforward journey to learn the nature and value of personal freedom, and also love, as expressed through the medium of Gilgamesh fanfic! Two great tastes that go great together.
(
shati: does eugenides get annoyed gods and kamet get his OTP shipping him back?me: yes, that's exactly what's happening here. also, i'm adding that to my booklog.
shati: anyway that is exactly what eugenides and kamet respectively deserve)The only thing about the plot that particularly surprised me was that the guy(/god) who leads Kamet to the docks at the very beginning wasn't sent by Eugenides as part of Operation: Steal Kamet's Entire Life Through Ingenious Lies, as I had initially assumed. That said, at this point in the series, the twists aren't really the point anymore; "yes, Eugenides chessmastered it" should not be a surprise, the point is what we all learn about ourselves while counting down until the point where Eugenides reveals that he chessmastered it!
I vastly enjoyed Kamet and Kamet's POV, and also the difference between Costis in Costis-POV and Costis in Kamet-POV. Costis: "I'm just your average guy, nothing special about me!" Kamet: "did I mention this Attolian is SIX FEET TALL and SUPER JACKED, also EXTREMELY PRETTY." I'm very glad that Costis got a nice vacation after his very stressful time in King of Attolia. Sure, there were some bumps in the road, and it was all very stressful for Kamet, but Costis is an outdoorsy type! He likes hiking and fighting lions! Anyway what I'm saying is I'm pretty sure that Costis would rather have been kicked in the balls by his bosom companion Kamet A HUNDRED TIMES than face one more agonizing Attolian royal makeout session. I hope the fact that Costis and Kamet have gone off to spy blissfully for Attolia together in another country doesn't mean we'll never see them again in the series!
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 03:37 am (UTC)AAAAAH WAIT NOBODY TOLD ME THERE WAS A NEW BOOK HOLY BLAP I MUST FIND AND READ THIS.
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 04:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 04:52 am (UTC)It's a good excuse!
NOW I OWN ALL OF THEM
I OWN ALL OF THEM EXCEPT THE ONE I DIDN'T KNOW EXISTED.
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-07-07 12:25 am (UTC)I reserve a place of affection for The Thief, which I read the year it came out (I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS SERIES FOR MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS HOLY BLAP IT'S AS BAD AS THE KENCYRATH), but otherwise The King of Attolia has traditionally been my favorite also, I think for the reasons you pinpoint in your post. Thick as Thieves is just incredibly charming: it's a high-stakes political thriller and can be legitimately summarized as such, but it's also a picaresque love story road trip with a mythological spine and adventure tropes busting out all over the place, like a two-person version of the Anabasis with hilarity on the side. I would have been sad and a little surprised if it had been a pile of Orientalist clichés, but that's always a danger when your antagonist country is an Eastern empire, especially a militaristic one with chattel slavery, and I think Thick as Thieves sidesteps it. I think it's good about its handling of slavery, too, as in the scene where Costis wants to know why Kamet didn't defend himself against an oncoming assassin and Kamet can't even figure out where to start explaining why it is that slaves who want to survive in his culture learn not to let themselves think that way about weapons. But the preeminent emotional aftereffect is still awwwww and that's just impressive, actual plot considering.
no subject
Date: 2017-07-13 02:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 06:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 10:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 04:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-29 04:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 01:44 pm (UTC)INCREDIBLE, I didn't think of it that way but that's exactly what happens and it's beautiful
(also I appreciate all your thoughts about these books)
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 02:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 03:51 pm (UTC)Ahahahaha that's exactly what happens! *g*
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-26 04:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 03:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 07:56 pm (UTC)...I'll probably just compromise by waiting until the hold at the library comes in...
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 04:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:14 pm (UTC)"Clearly he is doing it with the King of Attolia and was sent away for his own safety because he's JUST SO PRETTY!"
That conviction of Kamet's is never actually contradicted, I note.
no subject
Date: 2017-05-25 09:47 pm (UTC)Also, I cracked up at the end when both Kamet and Eugenides are earnestly attempting to convince each other not to blame Costis for any lying or scheming that may have taken place over the course of the book. IT'S NOT COSTIS' FAULT! HE'S JUST A HANDSOME ETHICAL MAN DOING HIS BEST!
no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 05:24 am (UTC)Any chance I could post that at
no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 05:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 05:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-26 01:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-26 07:46 pm (UTC)I think part of why I'm not bothered is that the straight-up relationship scenes in Queen's Thief have always been written from third-person perspectives, never in first-person documents intended for other people to read (I think even the Helen/Sophos stuff in Conspiracy is all omniscient or semi-limited third). I will be awfully curious to see how they're described in future books, if they appear.
no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 12:45 am (UTC)and it was nice to get a book about people who aren't royalty. (which is one of the reasons i didn't mind too much that the romance wasn't explicitly stated -- in queen's thief books it tends to come up mostly in the context of marriage alliances and heirs.)
no subject
Date: 2017-05-29 04:06 pm (UTC)Nobody is royalty! Nobody is secret royalty! I kept having this fear until about midway through that Kamet was going to turn out to be secret kidnapped royalty of some sort or another and it was SUCH A RELIEF.
(Yea I saw your post on tumblr about dynastic marriage stuff and thought it was smart! But had not actually finished the book by that time. >.>)
no subject
Date: 2017-05-29 06:52 pm (UTC)(and it is HILARIOUS to me that while in king of attolia we see costis as, y'know, a normal dude, kind of dumb, completely unable to keep up with all of the intricate political machinations going on around him -- and now through kamet's eyes he's all, like.....big, strong, handsome, can and will fight anything, kills five men with his bare hands, has Depths.... still very much the same character but wow: what a difference not being out of your depth makes!*)
*double hilarious that costis is perfectly absolutely fine being tracked by the emperor's hired killers across an entire empire while hiking through the wilderness with no food and about $2 in pocket money, while protecting someone who's pretty much never been outside an urban area, like, that's just another day at the office, but having to hold even one conversation with eugenides is A Problem
no subject
Date: 2017-07-07 12:03 am (UTC)I genuinely like Eugenides and would enjoy another book from his perspective, even though I know that will be astronomically harder on the author now than it was in The Thief. I really want to know how he looks to himself.
no subject
Date: 2017-07-13 02:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-07-07 12:03 am (UTC)The worldbuilding took several levels this book. I liked how even the maps were in character.
no subject
Date: 2017-05-28 01:24 am (UTC)(i love.....that kamet and costis' version of ennikar literally dying and having to be rescued from the actual land of the dead is 'costis falls down a well and kamet has to pull him out')
no subject
Date: 2017-05-29 04:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-29 06:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-07-13 02:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-05-30 06:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-07-13 02:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-07-06 11:42 pm (UTC)I do like lots of things about Conspiracy, but it will probably remain my least favorite for that reason.
I found A Conspiracy of Kings valuable in terms of the series because there needed to be at least one book where no one could brilliantly strategize their way out of a bunch of bad options and the best of a bunch of bad options was still actually quite bad, but that doesn't mean that I enjoyed it. I had noticed even before this section of my library went into storage that it was the only one of the series I hadn't re-read.
and also love, as expressed through the medium of Gilgamesh fanfic!
With a side order of Ištar's Descent. There's a passage in the story of Immakuk rescuing Ennikar from the land of Death (which is more than Gilgamesh managed for Enkidu) that is almost a verbatim translation from the epic, where the goddess journeys
ina bīti etê šubat dIrkalla
ana bīti ša ēribušu lā aṣû
ana ḫārrani ša alaktaša lā tayyarat
ana bīti ša ēribušu zummū nūra
ašar epru bubūssunu akalšunu ṭiṭṭu
to the dark house, the seat of Irkalla,
to the house whose entrants do not come out again,
to the road whose way is without return,
to the house whose entrants are deprived of light,
where dust is their nourishment and clay their food.
A lot of the rest is Mesopotamian remix as much as the myths of the Little Peninsula are remixed Greek, but that passage leapt out at me. I am only a little sad there was no shout-out to the zombies of the underworld.
shati: does eugenides get annoyed gods and kamet get his OTP shipping him back?
Even the chance-met slave who aids and betrays them reads them as a couple! Their relationship is such a done deal that they don't even have a conversation about it: Costis simply turns up on the docks with his kit bag on his shoulder and says that he'll look pretty silly if Kamet doesn't actually want him to follow him across half the known world and Kamet doesn't say he doesn't, because he doesn't. "Idiot. Us."
The only thing about the plot that particularly surprised me was that the guy(/god) who leads Kamet to the docks at the very beginning wasn't sent by Eugenides as part of Operation: Steal Kamet's Entire Life Through Ingenious Lies, as I had initially assumed.
Same: I was frustrated with myself for not recognizing him from earlier in the series because the soldierly bearing, the scars, and the missing eye felt like obvious tells, but I haven't re-read any of the books since 2014 and I wasn't going to bet against him having been introduced in A Conspiracy of Kings anyway. I didn't clock his actual identity until Kamet told the story of the battle with Unse-Sek. Ennikar more or less announced himself when he appeared, but I don't blame Kamet for not noticing: he thought Costis was dead.
Costis: "I'm just your average guy, nothing special about me!" Kamet: "did I mention this Attolian is SIX FEET TALL and SUPER JACKED, also EXTREMELY PRETTY."
That was delightful. I'm waiting for someone else's perspective in the next book to tell me what Kamet looks like, because all he ever mentions about himself is nearsightedness and occasional scars.
I am a little disappointed that the Persian War has not yet happened in this history, because it has been almost happening ever since The Queen of Attolia, but I assume it will be worth it when it arrives.
no subject
Date: 2017-07-13 02:53 am (UTC)I completely didn't clock the first god until the reveal at the end, I was so set on him having been sent by Eugenides. I have I guess gotten to the point of mistaking Gen for omnipotent just like everybody else in canon.
I am also very excited for someone else's outside POV on Kamet! I hope very much we do get it, and that Kamet and Costis have not completely ridden off into the sunset. I heard a rumor the next book is meant to be the last one, which I assume means it will contain at least some version of the Persian War, but I don't know how much truth to assign to that rumor (and will indeed be a little wistful if it turns out to be true.)
no subject
Date: 2019-06-06 02:43 pm (UTC)