(no subject)

[skygiants]

I think the thing I appreciate the most about The Creation of Anne Boleyn is that the author does not pretend for an instant to impartiality. SUSAN BORDO <3 ANNE BOLEYN, HATERS [a subset including but not limited to Ambassador Chapuys, David Starkey, Alison Weir, Philippa Gregory, and the entire cast of The Other Boleyn Girl] CAN SEE HER OUT BACK IN TEN MINUTES.

I like that she's so upfront about this because it gives the reader a very comfortable amount of room to disagree with her. Reading this book is a bit like you're at a bar with Susan Bordo and she's shouting about ALL HER ANNE FEELINGS and you're nodding along sagely until she says something that's completely biased and you put down your beer hard and say "SUSAN that is NONSENSE" and Susan Bordo puts down her beer hard and is like "you know what's nonsense, EVERYTHING AMBASSADOR CHAPUYS EVER WROTE IN A LETTER TO KING PHILIP ABOUT ANNE BOLEYN" and you're like "look I know the guy is an unreliable narrator but I'm pretty sure he might have OCCASIONALLY written at least ONE true fact about Anne Boleyn" and Susan Bordo is like "your FACE might have written at least one true fact about Anne Boleyn but AMBASSADOR CHAPUYS NEVER DID" and then you shout at each other for a while, but in a friendly way!

The Creation of Anne Boleyn is part myth-debunking biography ("EVERYONE GOT THAT FROM CHAPUYS AND HE WAS DEFINITELY LYING ABOUT ALL OF IT"), part historiography/literature review ("I have read every weird paperback novel published about Anne Boleyn from 1700 AD on and I'm going to tell you about ALL of them, in this one MARK SMEATON represents a PAGAN GOD!") and part cultural history ("Natalie Dormer and I talked in a bar for FOUR HOURS about her noble fight to bring a three-dimensional Anne to the screen and all our MUTUAL ANNE BOLEYN FEELINGS! Then I tried to talk to my daughter about all my Anne Boleyn feelings, but she's eight and just wanted to eat the chocolate Henry we bought at Hampton Court.")

Anyway it was an extremely enjoyable read, even if, as aforementioned, sometimes you feel like you have to take a break to pat your Tudor history drinking buddy Susan Bordo on the head and tell her that you recognize and respect her feelings. "I'M MAD AT HILARY MANTEL," says Susan Bordo, "BECAUSE I LOVED HER BOOK SO MUCH AND IT'S SO UNFAIR TO ANNE," and you're like "yes, Susan, I know, do you need another glass of wine?" and Susan Bordo is like "I JUST WISH I COULD SAVE HER FROM ALL THE HATERS!" and you're like "ok yeah I'll get you a bottle." (As you go to the bar, you hear in the background that Susan Bordo has buttonholed a waiter and is earnestly explaining to him that the one thing we know about Anne Boleyn's hair color is SHE DEFINITELY WASN'T A BLONDE AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.)

Comments

[sovay]

part historiography/literature review ("I have read every weird paperback novel published about Anne Boleyn from 1700 AD on and I'm going to tell you about ALL of them, in this one MARK SMEATON represents a PAGAN GOD!")

That part sounds especially amazing. (How early were there weird paperback novels about Anne Boleyn?)

In case you have not yet seen it: Taylor Swift VIII.

[skygiants]

As far as I can tell from the book, the first thing that you could actually call a weird novel is Madame d'Aulnoy's "The novels of Elizabeth, Queen of England containing the history of Queen Ann of Bullen," written in approximately 1680. (Everything before that is just weird ostensibly nonfiction propaganda.)

I also forgot to mention Threads, the 1970s reincarnation one: "It’s 1970. Anne and Henry still have issues they need to address. It’s been 434 years since they parted – on bad terms – and they haven’t spoken since. Henry now has problems with alcohol, drugs and irresponsibility, and Anne is still holding onto a grudge." OF COURSE.

I've seen some of those but not all of them! THANK YOU FOR THIS GIFT.

[sovay]

As far as I can tell from the book, the first thing that you could actually call a weird novel is Madame d'Aulnoy's "The novels of Elizabeth, Queen of England containing the history of Queen Ann of Bullen," written in approximately 1680.

That's great.

"It’s 1970. Anne and Henry still have issues they need to address. It’s been 434 years since they parted – on bad terms – and they haven’t spoken since. Henry now has problems with alcohol, drugs and irresponsibility, and Anne is still holding onto a grudge."

That's . . . a thing.

I've seen some of those but not all of them! THANK YOU FOR THIS GIFT.

You're welcome! It seemed apropos.

[skygiants]

My favorite part of The novels of Elizabeth, Queen of England is that it apparently goes from "someone tells Elizabeth, Queen of England, how noble and tragic her mom was" to "someone tells Queen Elizabeth an action comedy about escaping from a seraglio."

Am I going to read the 1970s reincarnation novel? PROBABLY NOT, BECAUSE I HAVE A SENSE OF SELF-PRESERVATION. ....(maybe.)

[sovay]

PROBABLY NOT, BECAUSE I HAVE A SENSE OF SELF-PRESERVATION. ....(maybe.)

WHAT IS SELF-PRESERVATION TO THE APPLAUSE OF YOUR PUBLIC. I ASK YOU.

[skygiants]

A QUESTION I HAVE ASKED MYSELF BEFORE, TO MY REGRET.

[sovay]

A QUESTION I HAVE ASKED MYSELF BEFORE, TO MY REGRET.

THE REST OF US BENEFITED LIKE GANGBUSTERS, THOUGH.

[bookblather]

If it helps I have gotten my hands on a copy of Anne and Henry, the retelling of Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII IN HIGH SCHOOL.

This is gonna be awesome.

[skygiants]

I'M EXCITED FOR YOU TO READ THIS.

[starlady]

How much do you want to bet that Dorothy Dunnett read The novels of Elizabeth, Queen of England.

[skygiants]

she ONE HUNDRED percent did, omg

[genarti]

OMG TAYLOR SWIFT VIII. I hadn't seen that, and now I'm starry-eyed.

[sovay]

OMG TAYLOR SWIFT VIII. I hadn't seen that, and now I'm starry-eyed.

I had to go listen to "Thus Spoke Carly Rae" to get it out of my head.

[genarti]

I have now downloaded that and plan to add it to the flash drive of songs I play in the car, in hopes that it will come up on shuffle and confuse future passengers. *_* Thank you for this gift as well! (I think I'd heard of "Thus Spoke Carly Rae" before, but I hadn't actually tracked it down to listen to it.)

[sovay]

Thank you for this gift as well! (I think I'd heard of "Thus Spoke Carly Rae" before, but I hadn't actually tracked it down to listen to it.)

You're welcome! I have never heard the original song, but I find this version maddeningly catchy, so Carly Rae Jepsen must have done something right. (Also: "Twilight of the Idols, baby!")

[watersword]

Wait, that isn't how most nights out with friends go? You trade off talking about people's obsessions, cry over your shared obsessions, and apologize on each other's behalf to the strangers you have disturbed by shouting about same?

[skygiants]

Oh, absolutely, it's a very endearingly familiar experience. Go on, Susan, finish your rant about The Other Boleyn Girl, it was a bad movie and I understand that it hurt you personally and you need to let it out!

[bookblather]

I think this book annoyed me precisely because I COULDN'T shout amiably at Susan Bardo, you know? Like it's a book. We're not actually at a bar. I can't actually be like "SUSAN this is objectively HORSESHIT FIGHT ME." I think I would have been a lot happier if I could.

That said I did actually quite like the book! I was just frustrated.

[lizbee]

YES! I couldn't even finish it, because I had too many opinions and Susan Bardo wasn't there for me to shout them at her.

[skygiants]

I want to know what your opinions were!

[lizbee]

Pretty much along the lines of yours, ie, "Chapuys was probably right about some things! If only by accident!"

(The other reason I stopped was that I was researching a short story about Princess Mary in the weeks before the beheading, and I was afraid all this SHOCKING PRO ANNE PROPAGANDA was going to throw my narrative voice off.)

[skygiants]

(legit, the parts that actually got my hackles up the most where when she got what I felt was UNFAIRLY SNIDE about Katherine and Mary. You don't actually have to pick teams!)

[skygiants]

That's totally legit! I've read so many histories where authors present their probably wrong opinions as VERY OBJECTIVE FACT that just the fact that she was very clear that her facts were not very objective made me feel like I had breathing room.

[kore]

This is seriously one of the best reviews I have ever read.

[skygiants]

some authorial voices just cry out for allcaps!!

[genarti]

Oh my god, this review is amazing. (Although I do feel that reading it might ruin me for all fictional depictions and in fact offhand history book mentions of Anne Boleyn thereafter, which is not necessarily a reason not to read it.)

[skygiants]

(I think if anything it would enhance your appreciation of them! There's SO MUCH ambiguity -- which Bardo does acknowledge -- that honestly you can be like "well, MAYBE" for almost anything...EXCEPT ABOUT ANNE BEING A BLONDE.)

[genarti]

(Oooh. Okay, that makes it more tempting!)

[graycardinal]

And this is what the bar band is playing in the background during the conversation with Susan Bardo....

[sovay]

And this is what the bar band is playing in the background during the conversation with Susan Bardo....

HOORAY.

(I learned that song from my grandmother; I am not sensible about it.)

[skygiants]

I thought it was gonna be "I'm Henery the Eighth" so this was a pleasant surprise!

[genarti]

Yessssss.

[aberration]

Though tbh one of the things I still find most hilarious about The Tudors is that they almost fired Natalie Dormer when she dyed her hair brown because they intended to have a blonde Anne. Just amazing.

I mean. I get the impression that even I would be a little like "....okay that's a lot" reading this book, but I am sympathetic to Susan Bardo's plight. The Other Boleyn Girl was genuinely awful in more ways than I was expecting when I hatewatched it at 3 am.

[petra]

They wanted to fire the only good decision they made on the entirety of The Tudors for Not Being Blonde? Bless their little hearts.

I love the image of Susan Bardo with her beer and her list of citations, managing to get them to publish this long episode of Drunk History.

[viridian5]

I love the image of Susan Bardo with her beer and her list of citations, managing to get them to publish this long episode of Drunk History.

I would so watch that.

[skygiants]

BASICALLY. Apparently someone invited her to cowrite a book on, like, Misrepresented Women of History, and Susan Bordo was like "hmmm..." and then immediately fell alllll the way down an Anne Boleyn Wikipedia hole and came out the next morning like "OKAY NEW PLAN!!!!"

[skygiants]

She and Susan Bardo talk about that over their drinks! "It was a REAL COUP!" Natalie tells Susan (one gets the sense tipsily) and Susan Bardo is so PROUD of Natalie for fighting for brunette Anne.

There's a whole chapter about how bad The Other Boleyn Girl was but, to be fair, she's just as mad at Philippa Gregory as she is at the film crew if not madder. She spends many pages complaining incredulously about how Philippa Gregory brags about being 'historically accurate' and I too laughed in sympathy.

[aberration]

tbf Philippa Gregory honestly would be a lot more tolerable if she didn't pretend to be historically accurate. That being said I don't think anything would make me not rageful about the movie which was the woooooorst. (Though I don't know - I'm under the impression that the thing that I hate the most about the movie wasn't in the book, but I could be totally wrong about that.)

[laceblade]

oh my God, I need this immediately

[skygiants]

IT'S SO MUCH FUN

[imperfect_tense]

I am in the middle of reading this and I have to agree it is so refreshing that she outright admits she's an Anne fan. It's a nice change from the ones that start out all 'all, yes, this is impartial, purely on the facts' and then come to conclusions that make you go 'hmm, okay. I guess???'

There is some really interesting stuff here for sure!

[obopolsk]

I must read this book. Anyone who has this many feelings about Chapuys is someone with whom I feel destined to be friends.

(Also, Smeaton, after our Boleyn opera experience, is forever my favorite.)