(no subject)

[skygiants]

I waited FOREVER - okay, a month - for The Talismans of Shannara, the last of the Heritage of Shannara books, to come in for me at the library before caving and buying it cheap in a used bookstore.

(I should note that since I was limiting myself to one book, it was a choice between Talismans and a book featuring GOBLINS AND DINOSAURS VS. SHAKESPEARE. And a more difficult choice I have never made! Never fear, Goblin Reservation, SOMEDAY I WILL COME FOR YOU.)

Anyway. Talismans! Having concluded my reread of the series, I am still full of fond nostalgia. Things of especial note:

1. MATTY ROH. I love almost everything about her. No one is surprised by this, given that she is introduced as a snarky cross-dressed urchin who proceeds to beat up our Epic Hero and Bearer of the Magic Sword with a broom. However, objectively speaking, she is pretty much also THE MOST BADASS character in the whole series. And just about the only character who does not angst about killing people! Matty Roh is totally cool with killing people. Instead, she angsts hilariously about her tragic backstory: as a child, she wandered into poison mud and lost her pinky toe. Sorry, Matty Roh, you are no longer attractive to foot fetishists . . .? I can't decide which is awesomer: that time Morgan is all "what happened to the sentry?" and she's like "oh I totally killed that guy," the time she rescues Coll single-handed (okay, Damson is there too, but Damson basically spends the whole scene going "DANG, Matty Roh" while Matty Roh calmly kills five dudes) or the scene when Terry Brooks gives us a look inside everyone's heads right before the final battle, and it looks like this:
WALKER BOH: Oh no, what if we run out of time to save the world?
COLL: Oh no, what if it's too late to save my brother?
DAMSON: Oh no, what if it's too late to save my boyfriend?
MORGAN LEAH: Oh no, what if we all die?
MATTY ROH: Man, am I ever looking forward to killing some Shadowen! It's gonna be awesome!
(RUMOR: Cat! I'm a kitty-cat!)

I also love how she totally does not care about Par Ohmsford AT ALL, which is kind of refreshing given how everyone else runs around panicking over him.

2. Speaking of characters who do not angst: there is totally not enough Coll in the book, but I love how after spending the past book and a half trapped as a Shadowen, once he's fixed, Coll does not spend ANY TIME AT ALL angsting about it. He's just like "welp, that sucked. Off to find Par!" Given the fact that every other character spends chapters and chapters agonizing over their decisions - at one point it takes Morgan Leah half a chapter of sitting around and angsting indecisively to get from Point A: oh look a caravan! I'm totally going to rescue whoever's inside it! to Point B: NOW I AM ATTACKING THE CARAVAN! - this is very refreshing and yet another reason why Coll is my favorite. On the other hand, it's also the reason he doesn't get anywhere near as much page time. Double-edged sword!

3. Terry Brooks really, really loves this trope:

PERSON A: Oh hey, it's a person ambiguously in trouble! THAT MUST BE PAR OHMSFORD. I will rescue them forthwith!
PERSON B: Gosh, thank you for rescuing me!
PERSON A: . . . well, this is awkward. Um. You haven't seen Par, by any chance . . .?

I am okay with this, because the number of times it's repeated is hilarious. (It is especially funny with Morgan and Wren, because of how Wren is just like "thanks for the rescue, dude! By the way I'm Queen of the Elves now and I gotta get back to my epic battle over in the other plotline, PEACE OUT" in the space of about two pages, after multiple chapters of buildup.) This is totally going on my mental Terry Brooks Plot Bingo square, along with SOMEONE/SOMETHING IS CAPTIVE IN TYRSIS and OH CRAP THEY HAVE CREEPERS. (I also find it kind of hilarious how in the first book Creepers are the complete ultimate in scary, and by the final book Wren is like "yeah, me and my pet Tree Squeak just killed eight creepers. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.")

4. littledust is 100% correct: if these books had a fandom, fully 50% of it would be comprised of Rimmer Dall/Par Ohmsford slash. He just wants to guide you, Par! Teach you! Come inside your body and possess it for his own! You think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not.

5. Part of me wants to go find and read the next set of Shannara books now. The rest of me is convinced this would be as terrible an idea as reading any of the Valdemar books published post-1996. (Nostalgia covers the ones up to Silver Gryphon, but then you get to Owlflight and it's all downhill from there.)

Comments

[littledust.livejournal.com]

Terry Pratchett drinking game:

Drink once every time someone is rescued!
Drink twice if it's not the person that was supposed to be rescued!
FINISH YOUR DRINK every time a woman becomes one with nature!

...I'm sure there's much more, but I'm going to stop there. *G*

[skygiants]

HAHAHAHA ONE WOULD GET SO DRUNK SO FAST. Well, depending on your reading speed, I guess. (Drink once every time a character acts like a clone of their ancestor! Drink twice if another character actually comments on how much of an ancestor-clone they are!)

- and now I kind of want these books to be turned into a cheesy fantasy TV show, a la Legend of the Seeker. IT WOULD BE GLORIOUS.

[jothra]

Oh man nostalgia.

I keep reading these recaps of yours and something deep in my hindbrain goes AHHHH I REMEMBER THAT.

I was always fond of the Leah family, despite their angst.

Also, I liked the Owlflight/knight whatever books. Mostly because they were about a dude just kind of living in a fantasy world without a magical cataclysm or Dark Lord or even a nemesis hanging around. Admittedly that was years ago, and they probably wouldn't hold up if I read them again.

[skygiants]

Hahaha my brain totally did that too while I was reading them. Something would happen and I'd be like "AHHH I REMEMBER THAT crap you're getting eaten by a spider in the next chapter, aren't you."

I love the Leahs because they are totally ridiculous. Morgan Leah spends three books running around being an epic hero and musing about how he's ~grown~ and ~changed~ and become infinitely more badass, and yet by the fourth book he's still like "OMG YOU KILLED A GUY????" and getting beaten up by girls with brooms.

- wait, are the Owlflight ones the same as the knight whatever ones? I only ever read the first Owlflight book but wikipedia informs me it involves BANDITS and TAYLEDRAS and A KID WITH A MAGICAL DESTINY.

Also, your icon reminds me: I read the first Bone volume yesterday! And it is so adorable, Jo, I am 100% charmed. I need to post about it soon!

[jothra]

(I would watch a Sword of Shannara TV series in a second.)

Pffft, whatever. There's no child abuse or even much angst that I can remember. And I think his magical destiny was to become a diplomat between a village, the Tayledras, and Valdemar.

!!! You must! I demand it. Because I totally have the right to demand things of you.

[skygiants]

(Apparently they have had film rights for Elfstones of Shannara optioned FOREVER and been vaguely discussing it, so who knows!)

- okay, as far as magical destinies go that one is pretty cool.

Considering you introduced me to it, you totally do! *laughing* That may be tomorrow, depending. Alternately I may wait until I've read another volume or two. I WILL LEAVE YOU IN SUSPENSE.

[genarti]

I rather liked the first book! His angst was reasonably legitimate -- dead/missing parents, stuck in an awful apprenticeship/guardianship situation that sucked not because of abuse but because of personality clash + his grief issues + culture clash, and (miracle of miracles) the townfolk were not demonized, just presented as well-meaningly misunderstanding a kid who was not in an emotional place to cut them slack about it or make himself easy to understand.

And then the second book was kind of dumb -- let's introduce a Mary Sue healer! And change the town's entire mood and culture in a couple of years without a good reason! -- and then the third was just godawful. MOAR BARBARIANS. And hey, you know how you thought Lackey had gone against type and had mysteriously vanished parents be actually dead and never heard from again, as happens when people mysteriously die in dangerous magical places? Sorry, nope, they're back! (Granted, I was extra annoyed about that, because I'd been so pleased that she'd gone for that realism.)

I am still kind of sad that the trilogy didn't turn out as awesome as I wanted. But you're right, I do give it points for no new Dark Lords or magical cataclysms.

Edit: And Jo is totally right about his ~magical destiny~. Which I also give it points for!

[skygiants]

I vaguely remember talking about this with you over New Year's! Because I actually own Owlflight, it is on my shelf, and then I never got around to the others, and I think we started talking about (speaking of magical cataclysms) the Storms books, which are the late-Valdemar books that no one else likes that I like and will defend like Jo is doing the Owl books. I'm not making this up, right? This conversation actually happened? And then we made fun of the Tayledras a lot.

- admittedly that last could have belonged to any number of conversations.

[genarti]

...I only vaguely remember, but I find it a completely plausible conversation for us to have had! *helpful?*

No, I do remember on some occasion (which may or may not have been over New Year's, but probably was) discussing the Storms books, in which I like Karal but hate the entire Natali (Natalie? Fantasy Spelling #6?) plotline that you like. *grin* And hate the entire Firesong/An'desha plot that I don't think you defended anyway. But we can always agree on mocking the Tayledras!

(I loved the Tayledras and the Shina'in enormously as a wee pre-teen. This lingering nostalgia is, I must admit, half the fun of mocking them. Um.)

[skygiants]

This conversation may have been with Rym . . . or it may have been, in a stunning and completely implausible twist, all three of us!

Yeah, I was not defending the Firesong/An'desha plot. *laughing* I was so not defending it that I had in fact forgotten it existed. OH FIRESONG. (I like to think I was always a little bit bored by the Tayledras, but I think this is wishful thinking and giving my past self too much credit.)

[genarti]

:O :O :O!

Yyyyyeah. Also, OH FIRESONG DOING A PERSONALITY 180. I guess it's a novel twist on the magical personality-changing sex trope...? Um. Not that I liked him all that well before, but still, I didn't like him after for new reasons! (Haaaa. They were magical mysterious dramatic people with telepathic communication with animals who lived in harmony with their forest surroundings, through which they could move as no one else could, and they looked stylish while they did it. And they were On The Side Of Good. They were tailor-made for my wee self, and I cannot begin to pretend otherwise.)

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

...I loved the Storms books.

[skygiants]

YESSSS I AM NOT ALONE. *_* I was so excited to have Valdemar books where the focus was not on the super special chosen Heralds but on relatively ordinary college-type kids! Also: Karal. <3

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

YOU ARE NOT. I loved the range of characters from all the countries we got in that series, with college students and priests and nobles from remote areas! I also kinda admit I like the "damn, thousands of years ago these idiots had a huge magical war and now we all have to band together and make sure the aftereffects don't annihilate us" aspect of the plot, since it's kinda like actual nations with historical problems dealing with a natural disaster which threatens them all!

...I will, however, freely admit I never liked the Firesong/An'desha plot.

[(Anonymous)]

This inspired me to go to Wikipedia and find my _exact_ Valdemar cut-off. It's in 1991, after By The Sword. Once you get to the Winds series, it totally stops working for me. Which is weird, since those were the first Valdemar books I ever read (I definitely found all three of them, in a boxed set, in the basement of a house we'd just bought and moved into). And I definitely did not like them, even at the time.

Hey, uhh, that was me...Rahul

[rahkan.livejournal.com]

Stupid computer forgot about me being totally on livejournal

Re: Hey, uhh, that was me...Rahul

[skygiants]

It does that sometimes!

Oh man, the Winds books still totally count as Formative Valdemar for me; they and the Arrows books and the Vanyel books and the Tarma and Kethry books/By the Sword were the ones I owned. And the Storms and the Gryphon books were the ones I got from the library, and then the rest were The Ones I Did Not Read. I had actually forgotten By the Sword was pre-Winds, though. And now I don't remember if the Vanyel books were pre-Winds either - were they?

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Vanyel was definitely pre-Winds.

[skygiants]

I always think of Winds as coming right after Arrows because, uh, that's what it does in the timeline. Forgetting that the timeline does not actually have much to do with order-of-writing at all.

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

BUT BECCA, THE NEXT THREE SHANNARA BOOKS HAVE AIRSHIPS!

Also I am ashamed by my lack of memories regarding Matty Roh. ...Though I am slightly consoled by the fact that I remember that a lot of my attention in Talismans did in fact go to Coll.

And I have to admit, I actually like some of the later Valdemar books. I don't know if it would hold up at all, but for years I adored Brightly Burning (okay, yeah, it's wangsty when I look back on it, but I still kinda like "have a wangsty life? why not SET THINGS ON FIRE FOR YOUR COUNTRY?"). I also liked the Exile's books. ...Mainly because I like Alberich, I admit.

[skygiants]

I KNOW I KNOW. ;_; Airships and Walker Boh! IT IS HARD TO RESIST.

Hah, well, on the one hand, I don't blame you, considering she only appears in the last book and basically seems to have been inserted as a rebound girl for Morgan because she has no other plot-relevance. On the other hand, considering that, it is kind of incredible how awesome she actually manages to be! And, well, Coll is eminently deserving. :D

- I will admit I am curious about the Exile's books. I mean, Alberich is awesome. (Also, I think it does make a significant difference what age you are when you read them! Basically I can read all the ones I read for the first time before the end of middle school. Anything after that, I was too old for nostalgia to take!)

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

AIRSHIPS, WALKER BOH, AND ~ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY~!
Though those ones are covered by nostalgia for me, so it is perhaps easier for me to encourage this path.

I vaguely recall being impressed by her mad fighting skills, but I could also be making that up or confusing her with someone else at this point.

I should actually reread the Exile's books. I can't really remember anything about the first, other than my love of Alberich and the fact that she was working in the fact that Karse's god didn't like what the priests were doing (as shown in the Storms books). The second one, though, I do remember, because that's the one where we actually get a look at Selenay's disasterous first marriage. I liked that one a lot! It had political intrigue! And Alberich kinda being like a cop!
(See, I have to admit, Lackey's writing was so formative for me that the act of reading her is instantly nostalgic, even if I have never read the book before. There are things to be said for a number of her relatively recent books, in my opinion. And I can say that because I have somehow kept the ability to get through them.)

[skygiants]

Maybe I will put them tentatively on my list for when I have finished my reads/conclusions of the two other fantasy series I need to get through first . . .

You could be making it up! I don't think you'd be confusing her with someone else, though - she was about the only person to demonstrate mad fighting skills in the series. (Except Padishar Creel, I guess, but he gets Captured In Tyrsis! so many times you kind of forget about that.) Everyone else had a magic talisman of some kind! Matty Roh just had HER OWN BADASSERY.

. . . . see, you say 'Alberich kinda being like a cop,' and now ALL I CAN THINK is 'buddy cop fic with Lunge!' IT'S A SICKNESS.

(See, you are lucky! You get the feeling of nostalgia combined with expanding your story-horizons. Me, I have just memorized most of the plot points of the early Valdemars and the Bard books.)

[genarti]

*chimes in*

I liked the Alberich books! With a few complaints, but mostly liked them. And I read them well after I had passed the nostalgia threshold.

However, a significant part of that is the fact that Alberich is 100% my character type with language-barrier sprinkles on top, so... YMMV.

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

Eeeexcellent. *steeples fingers*

The more you say, the more I need to reread this for her.

...I WANT THIS FIC.

(I never really got into the Bard books. I own a number of them, but somehow never focused on that as a series. ...Which is odd considering my level of Lackey obsession.)