(no subject)
Oct. 12th, 2015 11:44 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
skygiantsIs it time to talk about Ancillary Mercy? Probably yes!
That was really good? THAT WAS REALLY GOOD. I did not see the resolution coming, but as soon as it happened I felt like I should have because it made perfect sense and was really the only thing that could have tied together all the disparate threads -- the Presger, the ghost ship, the question of AIs and AI relationships (SHIP SHIPS) and One Esk Nineteen's own unquestionable personhood. (I was especially impressed by the Presger thing, because I really could not see how she was going to work the Presger in narratively in the space that she had left, but if the Presger weren't going to be important then why Dlique and Zeiat?)
(Though it did kind of reinforce my feeling about the second book, that it's mostly there to set up plot points for the third, and that One Esk Nineteen's conflicts there just don't feel as central to her as a character as everything that she's dealing with in the first and third. Like, Sphene, the ancillary issue, the AI cores, the question of whether AIs can and should be self-determinating and self-driving and whether people can care about them as individuals and whether they can care about each other as individuals -- One Esk has a stake and a voice and a reason to be at the center of these issues, in a way that's just not quite true for most of the stuff that's going on in the second book.)
Also everybody grew as people but got to go on being incredibly flawed in the way that they were always deeply flawed? BUT GREW AS PEOPLE NONETHELESS. Well done, team. Man, I laughed SO HARD at the ships-sorting-out-ship-feelings scene --
MERCY OF KALR: I'm going to use Seivarden as my proxy to express my affection for you!
ONE ESK: ...? first of all, feeling affection for me is unpossible --
MERCY OF KALR AND SEIVARDEN: There is nothing in the world less true than this.
ONE ESK: Second it seems kind of ... unhealthy .... for Seivarden ..... to be the human proxy for the relationship between two AIs ........
MERCY OF KALR: No, no, it's fine, it's fine! Seivarden is cool with it!
SEIVARDEN: I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE COOL WITH ANYTHING IN MY LIFE.
Admittedly Seivarden is not really cool about anything in her life. WHAT A DILLWEED. <3 <3 <3 I mean I could try to talk a good game about the implications of AI intelligence and civic personhood, the fundamental alien-ness of the Presger, etc. etc. but we all know that really I am here for Seivarden failing at life. Also One Esk's total and hilarious feelings-blindness, Tisarwat's fumbling occasionally well-intended ambition -- darling child!! -- and Sphene's awkward bonding with Kalr Five over pottery and all-consuming desire to punch Anaander Mianaai in the face.
That was really good? THAT WAS REALLY GOOD. I did not see the resolution coming, but as soon as it happened I felt like I should have because it made perfect sense and was really the only thing that could have tied together all the disparate threads -- the Presger, the ghost ship, the question of AIs and AI relationships (SHIP SHIPS) and One Esk Nineteen's own unquestionable personhood. (I was especially impressed by the Presger thing, because I really could not see how she was going to work the Presger in narratively in the space that she had left, but if the Presger weren't going to be important then why Dlique and Zeiat?)
(Though it did kind of reinforce my feeling about the second book, that it's mostly there to set up plot points for the third, and that One Esk Nineteen's conflicts there just don't feel as central to her as a character as everything that she's dealing with in the first and third. Like, Sphene, the ancillary issue, the AI cores, the question of whether AIs can and should be self-determinating and self-driving and whether people can care about them as individuals and whether they can care about each other as individuals -- One Esk has a stake and a voice and a reason to be at the center of these issues, in a way that's just not quite true for most of the stuff that's going on in the second book.)
Also everybody grew as people but got to go on being incredibly flawed in the way that they were always deeply flawed? BUT GREW AS PEOPLE NONETHELESS. Well done, team. Man, I laughed SO HARD at the ships-sorting-out-ship-feelings scene --
MERCY OF KALR: I'm going to use Seivarden as my proxy to express my affection for you!
ONE ESK: ...? first of all, feeling affection for me is unpossible --
MERCY OF KALR AND SEIVARDEN: There is nothing in the world less true than this.
ONE ESK: Second it seems kind of ... unhealthy .... for Seivarden ..... to be the human proxy for the relationship between two AIs ........
MERCY OF KALR: No, no, it's fine, it's fine! Seivarden is cool with it!
SEIVARDEN: I HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE COOL WITH ANYTHING IN MY LIFE.
Admittedly Seivarden is not really cool about anything in her life. WHAT A DILLWEED. <3 <3 <3 I mean I could try to talk a good game about the implications of AI intelligence and civic personhood, the fundamental alien-ness of the Presger, etc. etc. but we all know that really I am here for Seivarden failing at life. Also One Esk's total and hilarious feelings-blindness, Tisarwat's fumbling occasionally well-intended ambition -- darling child!! -- and Sphene's awkward bonding with Kalr Five over pottery and all-consuming desire to punch Anaander Mianaai in the face.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 04:29 pm (UTC)<3
I was so shocked that she managed to pull everything together at the end. And shocked at how well I liked the ending, actually - that it was a little ending, with little people doing important things, not a grand battle. It makes sense. Also had to come to terms with a divided Anaander Mianaai being total crap at life and in the end, a fallible being who managed to get things done by being an idea rather than a person. But as soon as you take the AIs away...
And how much it was about love, ahhhhh, all the AIs being given agency and deciding how they want to look after their people (Station broadcasting Anaander Mianaai!). And Breq having a guilty breakdown at how she hadn't respected Ship's feelings, and them being awkward and terrible.
And Seivarden's massive failboatness, obv.
BUT IN THE END IT WAS ALL ABOUT LOVE. AND RESPECT. How pleased was I that it all wrapped up with AIs getting to be Significant Beings.
SHIPS
Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 07:07 pm (UTC)STATION. I can't believe I forgot to mention Station in my post, and everyone else just like "Station ... is the most badass of all? Station?!?"
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2016-05-18 06:01 am (UTC)Yes! One of the big-time reviewers (Tor? NPR) said Leckie really stuck the landing, and yes, by God she did -- that and more.
Agency is probably the ultimate thread running through the novels -- we get big signal-flashes of it with One Esk when she has to kill Awn, with the political developments of Athoek Station and Downwell; with the Emancipation of the AIs in the last book. It's amazing.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 08:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 08:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 08:20 pm (UTC)Ships can't love other ships, obvs. <3<3<3<3<3<3<3 OH MY GOD FRIEND YOU ARE SUCH A FUCK UP AND I LOVE YOU SO MUCH. (I can't remember the narrator's preferred name -- does she ever say it's One Esk? I guess I'm just stuck on Seivarden brokenly calling her Breq and then drawing herself together again, while when our narrator friend herself identifies herself by anything other than Breq Mianaai, it's as Justice of Torren. But then you've called her One Esk, and I saw someone else doing so, too.)
How much did I love all the mental health stuff? OH MY GOD SO MUCH ARGH. Mental health treated genuinely and scrupulously as physical health -- right up to some people treating ill health as weakness and others treating it as something that can be absolutely managed and reasonably accommodated within a work environment. All the different kinds of mental ill health on display in the leading characters, and how it wasn't a matter of Bravely Muddling Through, and how some things can be pharmaceutically corrected and other things need psychosocial interventions (as well/instead) and oh, yesssssssssssssssss GOOD I LOVED IT.
Spheeeeeene! The bit where Our Narrator Friend launches into the eggs song and Sphene regrets ever calling her cousin. OH MY GOD THE BIT WHERE STATION CHECKS THAT IT CAN BE COUSIN TOO. we;ahfja;oiwejf;oqwrihga;efhsh;fsafahijafwe YESSSSSSSS
I fucking loved this book, is what I'm trying to say.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 08:36 pm (UTC)SHIPS CAN LOVE PERSONS WHO COULD BE CAPTAINS THOUGH. <333 Man, in the beginning, when she's like "oh, obviously Mercy of Kalr is making Seivarden a favorite, of course!" OH MY GOD. (It's such a complicated question! I don't think she ever specifies what name she prefers per se -- but I'm pretty sure she doesn't like being stuck as a Mianaai, when she's providing her 'real' identity, during big confession or reveal scenes, she usually says "it's me, Justice of Toren One Esk Nineteen" or something along those lines. And the first book makes such a point of differentiating a.) One Esk vs. Justice of Toren and b.) AI-in-human-body Justice of Toren One Esk Nineteen vs. 'human' Breq that I figured Justice of Toren One Esk Nineteen is what she thinks of as her actual name. But that's also really long to write out .... so I usually default to One Esk as closest to what she thinks of as her name/identity?)
Yes! And how nobody is magically fixed by the end, and not all methods of help work the same as others, and it's a constant process (the medic asking Tisarwat whether her meds or the other meds worked better at the end! I loved that moment.)
SPHENE WAS AMAZING. All the best one-liners in the book, man. Strangely lovable ... for a terrifying renegade AI that has been kidnapping and murdering human beings for thousands of years ....... and refuses to consider stopping that behavior ........... um. BUT EVERYONE IS COUSINS ANYWAY. Even cousins whose ethics and behavior we side-eye VERY STERNLY.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2016-05-18 06:05 am (UTC)All of this -- yes, please, novels, GIVE ME MORE CHARACTERS WHO ARE HEROES BUT ALSO NOT WELL; they textually suffer from depression and anxiety, for starters, and I would wonder what Medic's notes say about Breq/One Esk Nineteen/Justice of Toren...
no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 08:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 08:37 pm (UTC)I'm looking forward to your thoughts whenever you read it!
no subject
Date: 2015-10-12 10:32 pm (UTC)And that moment when Station is like: "How dare you! Seivarden is a precious cinnamon roll! And frankly I'm embarrassed on your behalf for your slip-shod approach to medical care."
no subject
Date: 2015-10-13 01:25 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2015-10-13 02:16 am (UTC)Also my ship ship is canon and I'm THE HAPPIEST about it. AND AI BEING REALIZED AS SIGNIFICANT, FUCK YES. WHAT AN AMAZING THING. ♥
no subject
Date: 2015-10-13 10:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-14 03:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-15 11:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-14 09:42 pm (UTC)I really enjoy how much facepalming over Seivarden appears to be one of the prerequisites for admitting emotional attachment to her.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-15 11:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-22 02:31 am (UTC)I just. !!!!!!!!!
no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 05:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2015-10-22 10:40 am (UTC)I love how the presger don't feel like a too-perfect Deus es Machina because they're so terrifying, even when they're saving everyone.
I loved the complex playing around with identity. One of the more subtle ones was Sphene still kind of seeing itself as a representative of the "real" Radch, more "real" even than Anaander. There wasn't space to poke more at the Radhc/Radchaii tension but I always found it intriguing knowing all the "Radch" we met would be considered outsiders to the "real" Radch. Who I bet rely on AIs as much as anyone else :D
no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 05:45 pm (UTC)Yeah, and I loved too that moment when Dlique is like 'well, um, you may have ... already broken the treaty .....?' This could all still turn out so VERY POORLY in re: the Presger, there's a ton of scope for everything to go horribly wrong.)
Yes, I loved that too! What's 'Radch' to a spaceship that has seen everything about the civilization change? (...now I wish we'd gotten to see more Sphene-Seivarden interaction, in terms of their long-term perspectives on seeing their idea of Radch culture disintegrate around them. Though obviously Sphene's is more drastic.)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 04:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 05:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 04:55 am (UTC)I love One Esk's seat of the pants solution to everything. And Seivarden wandering through Medical, totally
providing fanservicedrugged to the gills, to cuddle with One Esk. And Athoek Station's clever workarounds to protect itself and its citizens. Who knew upsetting an all-seeing environment-controlling AI might backfire?I love Sphene entirely too much. Is Sphene in this novel just to make One Esk look reasonable in comparison? I don't know, and I don't care. I would be absolutely okay with The Adventures of Sphene And Queter, An Ongoing Serial, With Lots of Sarcasm And Deadpan Humor.
Yes, there's also the handwavy-flaily feelings about how all the identity issues from all three novels come together when One Esk suggests AIs are Significant, but if I start on my feelings about Leckie pulling that synthesis of identity issues, the Presger, and the entire history of the Radch into a ninety-degree turn and plot resolution, this will be a much longer comment.
(And Amaat Two and Four singing at the end! And Bo One mangling the Orsian song from Ancillary Mercy! There are many things, large and small, I've enjoyed about this trilogy.)
no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 05:50 pm (UTC)I feel bad being like 'LOL STONED SEIVARDEN' given ... givens ...... but lord, that scene was amazing. And Sphene! SPHENE. What an ... amazing jerkwad of an AI. I gotta say, when I was envisioning how the ghost ship stuff was going to play out in Sword, I did not anticipate that it would be my FAVORITE THING IN THE WORLD aka terrible family bickering at all times.
I would be OK with that much longer comment, for the record. >.>
(AND ALL THE SINGING!!!)
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2015-10-23 06:07 pm (UTC)*drumroll please*
THE SHIP WHO SANG?
no subject
Date: 2015-10-24 01:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2016-05-18 05:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-05-21 03:37 am (UTC)