skygiants: a figure in white and a figure in red stand in a courtyard in front of a looming cathedral (cour des miracles)
[personal profile] skygiants
I read Stacy Schiff's The Witches: Salem, 1692 not because I'm particularly interested in the Salem witch trials, but because I liked her nonfiction prose style in the Cleopatra biography she wrote well enough that I was interested in whatever subject she chose to write about.

I felt like I had a fairly reasonable grasp on the key events going in, both from reading some books as a kid and from cultural osmosis -- hysterical teens, Tituba, stressed-out Puritans, distressed accused grandmothers, "more weight!", Cotton Mather sticking his nose in every which way -- and most of the things I vaguely remembered did indeed turn out to be accurate, though I appreciated in general Schiff's strict adherence to facts rather than speculation, and careful attention to gaps in the historical record. I also appreciated the breadth of her scope, and how she places the witchcraft scare in context; she draws a detailed portrait of the pre-existing stressors and small-town politics of Salem Village (a town so rancorous that they kicked out three ministers in ten years, one of whom ended up accused of witchcraft despite living an entire state away, and nearby Actual Salem Town wrote to them multiple times in the pre-witchcraft years to be like "PLEASE STOP ASKING US TO MEDIATE YOUR ARGUMENTS, WE'RE TIRED AND WE DON'T CARE") but also of the broader context and how Massachusetts politics may have influenced the reaction to the crisis. (It is notable -- a fact I did not know -- that the witchcraft trials somehow mysteriously slowed their roll after the governor's wife was accused.)

Maybe most of all I liked how she wrote about the little we know of the aftermath -- it's horrible but fascinating to think about all the people who accused each other at the height of the crisis and then had to spend their ENTIRE LIVES running into each other awkwardly at the store.

Schiff is particularly interested in the Nurse clan, and successfully managed to get me interested in them as well; Rebecca Nurse was an apparently much-beloved seventy-something great-grandmother whose family (unlike that of most other victims) unilaterally rallied around her when she and her sisters were accused of witchcraft and immediately started a HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE GRANDMA petition. The jury originally acquitted her! The judges were like "ummm maybe rethink that," and alas, Rebecca Nurse was executed, along with her sister, Mary Esty, who wrote a very polite letter to the judges asking that they perhaps reconsider executing any more witches after her.

Unsurprisingly, the Nurse family spent the next decade Still Mad About Grandma (And Great-Aunt Mary). They collectively refused to attend church until Samuel Parris the town minister (a prosecutor in the trials and related to several accusers) publicly apologized, which he refused to do for years, and the feud went on until finally it resulted in Parris getting forced out of his position; score one for the Nurse clan. On the other hand, the next minister reorganized church seating arrangements so that they had to sit next to the other family that accused Grandma of being a witch. So it goes. I was describing this to [personal profile] attractivegeekery and [personal profile] genarti and they pitched me the idea of a black comedy show about small-town sniping in seventeenth-century Puritan America, in which it is only gradually revealed that the small town is Salem and the reason Ann and Mary keep getting into fights over floral arrangements on the church beautification committee is Still Because Of That Time Grandma Was Executed For Witchcraft.

All that said, I have one major complaint about the book, and that is that for all her broad scope, Schiff somehow completely avoids some topics that I think are really quite relevant, like, for example, slavery in Puritan America. We spend a little time on Tituba; it's impossible, in writing a book on the Salem witch trials, not to spend a little time on Tituba; I still have no idea how common or uncommon it was for a man like Samuel Parris to have slaves, what their position and status would have been in Salem, and what context they themselves might bring to the witch trials. Similarly, Schiff spends a fair amount of time on the fact that the colonists lived in fear of attacks from the local tribes, and no time at all using her undeniably clever prose to contextualize or complicate Puritan Ideas about Indians.

We do, however, get some perspectives from the local Quakers. They appear to have spent the entire time period of the Salem Witch Trials filled with a deep sense of schadenfreude, and I think anyone who read The Witch of Blackbird Pond would agree that honestly that seems fair.

Date: 2019-08-07 05:14 am (UTC)
starlady: Raven on a MacBook (Default)
From: [personal profile] starlady
Given that the Puritans had executed Quakers such as Mary Dyer for heresy, yeah, I'd say the schadenfreude seems fair.

I need to pick this one up! It's a pity that she doesn't contextualize the things you mention, but it sounds quite good apart from those areas.

Date: 2019-08-07 04:00 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
it's one of the few times witchcraft panic seems to have been turned almost solely inward -- aside from Tituba, it generally wasn't slaves or Quakers or indentured servants who were accused, but full members of the community all pointing fingers at each other.

I wonder if that influenced "The Lottery" -- Jackson certainly knew all about the trials and wrote a book about Salem.

Date: 2019-08-08 12:16 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yeah, altho at least it's randomized in "The Lottery." (OR IS IT)

Date: 2019-08-07 05:20 am (UTC)
sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)
From: [personal profile] sovay
The Witches: Salem, 1692

I am obligated to leave this poem here because of Nicholas Noyes, which is nuts.

Maybe most of all I liked how she wrote about the little we know of the aftermath -- it's horrible but fascinating to think about all the people who accused each other at the height of the crisis and then had to spend their ENTIRE LIVES running into each other awkwardly at the store.

I've never seen anyone write about that before. It sounds horrible but fascinating. I will steal [personal profile] spatch's copy of this book.

Date: 2019-08-07 07:34 pm (UTC)
sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)
From: [personal profile] sovay
I had no idea there was a Noyes connection!

It's nuts! Especially the part where Nathaniel Hawthorne imported the blood-to-drink curse-death wholesale into the backstory of The House of the Seven Gables, so that I have twice told the story about [personal profile] spatch's ancestor and been corrected for confusing fiction with fact.

Thank you for sharing the poem; I like the demons you brought to your marriage.

Thank you.

-- I feel like accounts tend to close with "they stopped hanging witches and the craze ended," but nothing ends when you're all still living in the same small village.

Same. I really would love to see someone dramatize it. I don't know how you live with something like that in general and in particular I don't know how Puritan society/theology expected or directed you to.

I had forgotten that The Crucible ends, ahistorically, with two of the accusing girls running away to England, I suppose just because Miller couldn't get his mind around this very problem.

I knew The Crucible had historical issues, but I didn't remember that one. Narratively neater, but.

I keep thinking about the vagueness you mentioned about slaves in Salem Village; I don't have that information and I'd also really like to know. Much of what I know about Tituba is—at least the last time I checked—how much we don't know about her.

Date: 2019-08-08 12:27 am (UTC)
osprey_archer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] osprey_archer
One sort of imagines them putting up billboards advertising themselves as the Distinctly Less Murderous Church.

...This could also be a big element in the TV show. I'm just saying. Anglicans: The Distinctly Less Murderous Church! Also Quaker Schadenfreude!

A TV series could also explore provide more context on Tituba - if she was still in Salem after the trials? I may have read somewhere that she was sold down to Barbados. But then again a TV show with flower arrangements doesn't need to adhere strictly to historical facts like whether or not Tituba remained in Salem...

Date: 2019-08-08 01:46 am (UTC)
osprey_archer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] osprey_archer
I love it! Why don't they pay us the big bucks to crank out these TV shows? Quaker + Catholic Statlter & Waldorf in Salem Village is top notch stuff.

I feel the Quaker should be an older woman who knew Mary Dyer personally, so her jokes have an edge.

Date: 2019-08-08 02:34 am (UTC)
sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)
From: [personal profile] sovay
nsurprisingly it sounds like at least a few people decided that the aftermath of the witch trials was a good time to switch religions; the local Anglican churches seem to have gotten a little bit of a boost by comparison.

Oh, wow. I'm not surprised by that; it's painfully understandable; and yet it is also hilarious.

Schiff actually provides quite a lot of context on the Puritan habit of farming out their children to each other as servants

I know almost nothing about that. What an interesting interpretation of community service.

surely some general information on the topic must exist, even if we don't know about Tituba in particular.

Right! They owned people! We must have some idea of how that worked! (I've read a YA novel from the '50's about indentured servitude in Puritan communities. And that's more obscure to most people than slavery.)

[edit] BOOM.

[edit edit] This review of New England Bound is fascinating in its own right.
Edited Date: 2019-08-08 02:46 am (UTC)

Date: 2019-08-07 06:21 am (UTC)
vass: Jon Stewart reading a dictionary (books)
From: [personal profile] vass
I was describing this to [personal profile] attractivegeekery and [personal profile] genarti and they pitched me the idea of a black comedy show about small-town sniping in seventeenth-century Puritan America, in which it is only gradually revealed that the small town is Salem and the reason Ann and Mary keep getting into fights over floral arrangements on the church beautification committee is Still Because Of That Time Grandma Was Executed For Witchcraft.

YES, GOOD.

Date: 2019-08-07 06:36 am (UTC)
kaberett: Trans symbol with Swiss Army knife tools at other positions around the central circle. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kaberett
Thank you for these facts!

Date: 2019-08-07 12:29 pm (UTC)
oracne: turtle (Default)
From: [personal profile] oracne
Clearly I need to try this author's work.

Date: 2019-08-07 10:20 am (UTC)
annotated_em: close shot of a purple crocus (Default)
From: [personal profile] annotated_em
I. I would watch the hell out of that black comedy show.

Date: 2019-08-07 01:25 pm (UTC)
redrikki: Orange cat, year of the cat (Default)
From: [personal profile] redrikki
I would definitely watch that black comedy show, or at least the first few episodes. They'd have to have the reveal by the pilot climax to really keep my attention.

Honestly, I think a lot of histories stop at the end of the obvious action because the long-term effects are just so nebulous, long reaching, and poorly documented. Did you know there was a post-Civil War opium crisis and booming addiction cure industry? I didn't until fairly recently, because it's not something you ever really hear about. We hear war ended, slaves free, Lincoln dead, not f-ed up vets with PTSD and addiction.

God, now I wonder how many people in Salem who watched Grandma hang and lived in fear that they might be called out next had PTSD as well. Maybe they weren't just pissed off with Grandma's accusers; they were triggered by them. Well, there's a thought that will be in my head all day.

Date: 2019-08-07 04:01 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Did you know there was a post-Civil War opium crisis and booming addiction cure industry?

Ooh, was this a recent book?

....argh I hadn't thought so much about the PTSD triggering either.

Date: 2019-08-07 05:33 pm (UTC)
redrikki: Orange cat, year of the cat (Default)
From: [personal profile] redrikki
The guy who wrote this article on addiction in the Gilded Age gave a lecture about post-Civil War addiction at our local historical society back in March. He touches on it briefly in the article, but really fleshed it out in the lecture. I think he's working on a book, or at least is dissertation.
Edited Date: 2019-08-07 05:34 pm (UTC)

Date: 2019-08-07 05:45 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Awesome, thank you!

Date: 2019-08-07 01:27 pm (UTC)
watersword: Line drawing of a computer mouse and the words "Sorry, up late.  Internet porn." Quotation from House, MD. (Stock: internet porn)
From: [personal profile] watersword
/promptly places requests at the library for Schiff's work

Date: 2019-08-07 01:51 pm (UTC)
trascendenza: ed and stede smiling. "st(ed)e." (Default)
From: [personal profile] trascendenza
in which it is only gradually revealed that the small town is Salem and the reason Ann and Mary keep getting into fights over floral arrangements on the church beautification committee is Still Because Of That Time Grandma Was Executed For Witchcraft.
Ooooh, that would be some high quality black comedy right there! And it's so true that often what comes after the huge culture-altering event is fascinating in itself, which is a shame because in school it felt like they taught us about history as a list of discrete momentous events.

Date: 2019-08-07 05:41 pm (UTC)
movingfinger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] movingfinger
In the years after the trials, a lot of family members and relations left Salem Village to settle on land in Danforth Plantation, owned by Thomas Danforth, around what is now Framingham and Ashland. There are rocks still called the Witch Caves and some of their houses still stand (the Esty place burned down not long ago, sadly). The road through the plantation along which the Esty family settled is called Salem End.

Date: 2019-08-08 02:51 am (UTC)
sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)
From: [personal profile] sovay
I'd move too. I'd move in the middle of the trials.

I'm starting to be fascinated that Salem Village didn't cease to exist. It wouldn't have been either folklorically or psychologically surprising if it had been abandoned in the decades following the trials; that's the kind of event that depopulates a place. Instead it just turned into Danvers.

Date: 2019-08-08 12:13 am (UTC)
osprey_archer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] osprey_archer
they pitched me the idea of a black comedy show about small-town sniping in seventeenth-century Puritan America, in which it is only gradually revealed that the small town is Salem and the reason Ann and Mary keep getting into fights over floral arrangements on the church beautification committee is Still Because Of That Time Grandma Was Executed For Witchcraft.

I would watch the hell out of this. It sounds absolutely delightful in a horrifying, horrifying way. Are Puritans allowed to have floral arrangements in church? That sounds like the kind of thing Puritans might think was too Papist. Maybe one of them wants floral arrangements and the other is on Team Floral Arrangements Are Papist and So Was Your Grandma and Team Yay Floral Arrangements is like YOU ALREADY HAD GRANDMA EXECUTED FOR WITCHCRAFT AND NOW YOU'RE COMING BACK WITH AN ACCUSATION THAT IS *EVEN WORSE* HOW DARE.

Date: 2019-08-11 02:02 am (UTC)
obopolsk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] obopolsk
it's horrible but fascinating to think about all the people who accused each other at the height of the crisis and then had to spend their ENTIRE LIVES running into each other awkwardly at the store.

Ooh, how have I never thought about this before?!

I've actually had this book on my shelf for a few years now but haven't managed to get to it yet. Hopefully I will soon.

Date: 2019-08-13 12:18 am (UTC)
bloodygranuaile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bloodygranuaile
I have had this sitting on my shelf for about two years now but instead of reading it I listened to the entire first season of the podcast Unobscured, which I was surprised to find was largely about the war raging in New Hampshire that I had never heard of! I think Schiff was interviewed in it a few times. But it sounds like there is even more wacky stuff that got left out of the popular understanding of the witch trials than was even covered in the podcast, so probably I should dig the book up off my shelf one of these days.

Date: 2019-08-18 03:26 pm (UTC)
bloodygranuaile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bloodygranuaile
I would! It's the same guy who does Lore, so it also sort of depends on how you feel about him as a narrator, but I like Lore so I also liked "Lore, but an entire season about just one thing."

Also one of the sources he leans on heavily is the archivist for the historical society in Danvers, and that guy's accent somehow really brings home how much this shit all happened right in our backyard in a way that being able to pop up to Salem on the train for brunch somehow doesn't.

Date: 2019-08-21 03:45 pm (UTC)
brigdh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] brigdh
(Sorry for the late comment!)

I also really enjoyed this book when I read it a few years ago, but your point that Schiff could have included more information on the background of slavery in New England is very good. I've been doing a lot of research on the history of slavery in New York City recently, and they had their own panic in 1741, over a supposed slave rebellion/conspiracy. Though there were a few cases of possible arson, historians now seem in general agreement that there wasn't any actual overarching conspiracy any more than there were literal witches in Salem. Despite that, probably around 1/4 of all the adult black men in NYC at the time ended up arrested, and around 30 people were executed (around half burned at the stake, like the pop culture image of Salem's witches!).

Anyway, the real reason I wanted to mention this is because one the main causes bringing NYC's panic to an end is a letter that a surviving witness of the Salem trials wrote to NY's surveyor-general, saying basically "you guys are doing the exact same thing we did fifty years ago, stop it", and when the surveyor-general ignored it, the letter was reprinted in full in a NYC newspaper. More of how the aftermath lived on!

Date: 2019-08-24 11:08 am (UTC)
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)
From: [personal profile] lokifan
Maybe most of all I liked how she wrote about the little we know of the aftermath -- it's horrible but fascinating to think about all the people who accused each other at the height of the crisis and then had to spend their ENTIRE LIVES running into each other awkwardly at the store.

Holy shit. I've never thought about that either! (Tbf, the Salem trials are obviously less of a big deal here in the UK than across the pond.) I'd watch the fuck out of that TV series, too - like a very dark Vicar of Dibley!!

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