(no subject)

[skygiants]

I am pretty positive that I read Lloyd Alexander's Westmark trilogy - Westmark, The Kestrel and The Beggar Queen - when I was small and reading everything Lloyd Alexander that I could get my hands on, but for some reason they stuck with me not at all at the time and I remembered absolutely nothing about them except that they involved war and street children. So it was a moderate surprise to reread them and find the power of the press, political unrest and uncertainty without easy solutions, and hot revolutionaries! Lloyd Alexander clearly subscribes to the 'your revolution will be much more effective if you are very very pretty' policy, with which none of us can argue.

Seriously, though, they're good books, the latter two especially, and very much foreground the ethical uncertainties that arise in politics and war. Good people can vehemently disagree with each other, and a good person is not necessarily a good ruler. Each book ramps up the complexity from the previous one; 'ousting the evil minister' and 'finding the rightful heir' are not enough to solve the problems of a country. There are definite echoes of the French Revolution throughout, but . . . I don't have a problem with this.

Which is not to say that the books are perfect; Theo, the male lead, is not particularly interesting in and of himself - more like a mirror for what's going on around him - and while Mickle, the female lead, is cool in many ways, she often got rewarded for what I at least thought was pretty irresponsible behavior. (Also I am pretty sure it fails the Bechdel Test.) The supporting cast, though, is fantastic - Colonel Witz! Keller! The river rats!

. . . and, on a totally shallow note, while I will not bookpoll this because I am not sure if enough people have read the books to make creating a poll worthwhile, if anyone has read the books I totally want to challenge you to a round of Cliff, Shag or Marry with Keller, Florian and Justin.

Comments

[agonistes]

Marry Keller, shag Florian, and Justin goes off the cliff. Easy-peasy!

[skygiants]

These also would be my choices exactly! (Keller <33333333!) But I feel there have to be people out there who are all about The Brooding Angst and Secret Insecurity of Justin.

[agonistes]

Yes, but... why. D:

*kills Justin AGAIN for good measure*

[skygiants]

Because he had a sad childhood and is canonically very very pretty . . . aren't these, like, the basic prerequisites for fandom adoration?

[genarti]

Ahahaha oh man. I read those books! And loved them! Back in the day in junior high; I distinctly remember getting them out from the middle school library. And being simultaneously a) satisfied by the realism of the thorny ethical stuff and portrayal of everybody going kinda crazy in the war just because... it was war and they were in the middle of it all, and b) deeply unsettled because WHERE IS MY HAPPY GOOD-GUY TIDINESS, LLOYD ALEXANDER, COME ON.

My memory of them is so patchy, though. For the game... uh. I will play, but you have to remind me who Keller is!

(I have no Enjolras-y icon, so you get this or wee huggy Cosette. I opt for this.)

[skygiants]

I think the b) is what caused me to forget about them when I was ten or so; I was a lot less about satisfying political complexity then than I was now. Uh, possibly unsurprisingly.

:O KELLER. Keller is the best! UM SPOILER WARNING STARTS HERE

--- He is the journalist who writes the Old Kasperl column and is all witty and detached but secretly patriotic, and then gets tragically ill, and tries to get himself arrested to rescue Theo from prison except the guards are like 'dude, we aren't going to arrest Old Kasperl, he is TOO AWESOME' and Keller is like 'DAMMIT, FOILED AGAIN'.

(I approve of either of these things! . . . now I feel I need an Enjolras-y icon, though. Hot revolutionaries are appropriate for all occasions!)

[genarti]

*giggles* I like the edited spoilering.

Keller! I thought that was who it might be, but I couldn't remember. He's one of the ones for whom I have more memory-gaps than, uh, memory.

In that case: marry Keller because he's awesome and relatively detached and stuff. Shag Florian because IIRC he is hot and has that whole Enjolras thing going. Cliff Justin because he is CRAZY. And annoying. And also CRAZY.

Becca I abruptly want someone to cross over this with SKU, just for the revolution...ness. Wacky misunderstandings! UST!

[skygiants]

I am belatedly considerate! :D

Yeah, I had no recollection of him at all from last time around, but this time he was my absolute favorite.

And this seems to be the popular choice! And yes you do remember correctly, although something that both impresses (due to realism) and entertains me is that Florian starts off really hot and then is described becoming rather less pretty due to stress and illness and so forth over the course of the books. While Justin abruptly becomes, looks-wise, A GOLDEN GOD. So of course half of Florian's followers are now Justin's! Direct ratio of hotness to revolutionary success!

. . . ME TOO NOW. *giggling* Touga/Justin?

[genarti]

Haaaa. Pique and Lilie should offer commentary!

I had forgotten that about Florian, but I too am entertained by it, and also approve. (Justin continues to annoy. Sorry, Justin. Only, y'know, not.)

I am now remembering that there is a Companion named Florian in one of the later Valdemar series (Storms, the one with Karal the young priest), and that gave me mental double-taking all the tiiiiime when I was reading it. ARE YOU A REINCARNATED REVOLUTIONARY, O WHITE GLOWY HORSE???

BUT OF COURSE. Touga/Justin/Akio, really, although the /Akio is probably a given anyway.

Also I feel Miki would like Mickle, although not necessarily in a shippy way. But he is earnest and kindhearted and stuff, so he would overlook her foibles! He is good at that.

Florian-Utena: awesome, y/n?

[skygiants]

Pique and Lilie should ALWAYS offer commentary.

I liked Florian more and more over the course of the series, converseley, as he got less pretty and less a giant ball of pure charisma. (Welll, yes. This is because Justin is essentially a jerk.)

- hee! I remember that, actually. But somehow Florian the revolutionary comes off as like 20x more hardcore than the white glowy horse. SOMEHOW.

/Akio is always a given! /Akio does not approve of / going on without him.

I don't know if you remember Zara - she's the one who was all angry and in love with Florian but really annoyed about it - but I bet she would get on with Juri!

Y!!! It would be like Florian-Theo except so much better because Utena actually has a personality.

[genarti]

Agreed!

I don't remember if I felt that way or not, but I am completely unshocked that you do. I might well have, though. Layers is nice! (Preeetty much.)

I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WOULD HAPPEN. Uh. Yeah.

Indeed. And oh, now I do remember Zara! Ahaha. Win! And Anthy would be horribly passive-aggressive at her, because... Anthy.

THAT WAS WHAT I WAS THINKING except without the recent memory to be sure. Awesomeness, and should happen! Er... somehow. If only in our fevered wee brains. Thing.

I feel like Justin-Saionji would be inevitable also. Also hilarious, in a headdesky way.

[skygiants]

Admittedly, layers in hot revolutionaries are also possibly somewhat less exciting when one is in middle school! (Enjolras has no layers. Enjolras NEEDS no layers.)

I KNOW, COMPANIONS ARE USUALLY SO HARDCORE.

I wanted more Zara! Because I liked her and her bitter sulkiness. Uh, shockingly. And yeeeah. Anthy would be passive-aggressive at everyone, and all the revolutionaries would glare. Except for Florian. Who would be ironic and then use her passivity as a political metaphor.

WACKY CROSSOVERS SHOULD ALWAYS HAPPEN. This is a motto for life!

*giggles* And then there would be a battle over principles!!!! and betrayal!!!! and lots and lots of name-calling about who has honor and who doesn't.

[genarti]

There is that. (Enjolras has a SNAZZY VEST. This is an adequate substitute for layers in his case.)

TOTALLY. Hardcore with chiming hooves o' silver!

...See, just that sentence about Florian makes me want to reread the books more. *giggling*

IT ARE TRUTH. I think it is also a motto for our conversations...

EXACTLY!!!! And glowering!!!! And if I put in any more exclamation points I think this will turn into the Christine!!!!version of both but YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN AND IT IS GLEE.

really this should be an icon of sparkly fakir but I have not done that one yet

[skygiants]

(This is truth! Also, hilariously, the vest/iconic flag-waving shot is TOTALLY RIPPED OFF on the front cover of The Kestrel.)

They are super committed to sparkle motion!

You should! I think you would find it much worth the reread. I feel I did not properly appreciate Florian at first but I love him now!


. . . . >.> maybe kind of. WE ARE TOTALLY SANE, NEVER FORGET.

And yes!!! SO MUCH GLOWERING. It only gets to be the Christine!!! version however if you throw sparkly!Fakir into the mix for yet more glowering.

Yeah, I too have insufficiently revolutionary icons, it seems

[genarti]

(Oh my god I had FORGOTTEN THAT. Ahahaha.)

They are! Maybe they are secretly sparklepires? There's the telepathy and the lifebonding and sometimes the ineffectual angst...

I shall! Do you own them, or did you take them out from the library? *is eyeing visit, and the fact that I owe you a ballet book anyway*

I HAVE NEVER FORGOTTEN THIS FACT AND SHALL NEVER DO SO. Baka.

I fail to see how this is a bad plan, my friend.

AU noir detectives are kind of like revolutionaries . . .

[skygiants]

(I think these are new covers from the ones they had when we were little! And I think some cunning executive was like, 'what do teen readers who like books about revolution want? ENJOLRAS, that is what they want!')

It would make so much sense! Edward is only watching in your room; Companions are watching in your head.

This was alas a library excursion, or else I would lend! . . . I feel there is something else I ought to lend you while you are here, though OH INDA that is what I will lend you!

Well, I'll just sashay off then!!! >:O

You know, I feel even Fakir would be daunted by the levels of bitchiness/crazy that are Justin . . .

Enjolras would never wear those sunglasses. *tsks*

[genarti]

(Cunning executive is 100% CORRECT, I feel.)

But Edward is psychic, remember! Just not with Bella. As opposed to Companions who are primarily psychic with Their Person, I guess, but ANYWAY STILL.

INDA YES PLEASE DO. Westmark I can totally get out from the library here! Well, Inda I undoubtedly could too, but booklending with friends is more fun! And also requires less remembering of due dates.

OKAY FINE!!!

I feel you are right. But his dauntedness would express itself as grumpy scowling and/or hilarious faces, so all's well.

[wakeupnew]

omg, I read those books! I don't remember them at all, though; I always liked Prydain and Vesper Holly better.

[skygiants]

Oh, same here when I was little (I actually want to reread Vesper Holly some time soon, because I loved those books so much! Vesper Holly > Indiana Jones by far.)

That's why I decided to reread these, actually, because I'd seen them mentioned somewhere as really good and couldn't remember anything. I'm not surprised I didn't like them as much at the time, though, I think they were a little too dark for Tiny Becca. Which is equally why I think they are awesome now!

[obopolsk.livejournal.com]

So it was a moderate surprise to reread them and find the power of the press, political unrest and uncertainty without easy solutions, and hot revolutionaries!

Okay, I definitely need to reread these now!

[skygiants]

I know, right? What more could you want out of books!

[sovay]

if anyone has read the books I totally want to challenge you to a round of Cliff, Shag or Marry with Keller, Florian and Justin.

Cliff Justin, shag Florian, marry Keller, but also make Keller see a doctor in the right century to prescribe him something for his TB, otherwise it is going to be canonically a very short honeymoon. On grounds of altruism, I would consider shagging Keller and then letting Sparrow marry him, but I really don't want to be stuck with Florian for the rest of my life.